Is it worth it - again??

[chrisd]

So, I played yesterday in a comp with two fairly high handicappers, great guys and enjoyable to play with who nutt the ball pretty well.

So, I pull a drive left to the trees and send a provisional sailing down the middle. I,and one guy, walk to where my first ball went and the following conversation takes place

There's a ball, have you designated which ball you're going to play?

Sorry I don't understand

You haven't seen the ball yet so you should decide whether you want to play the one in the fairway

But I can see that ball is mine it got my marks on it

But which one do you want to play?

I don't have a choice, this is the ball in play

Well, I'd not identify it and play the other one

But I'd be breaking the rules!

Well I know what I'd do!


I spoke to the other guy about abuse of the rules and he said that you'd be surprised at what happens in competitions that I've seen!

You know, I think he's probably spot on

 

[fundy]

First thing I heard when I entered the clubhouse today was "so I declared the first one lost......."

 

[woody69]

I don't doubt for a second that there are numerous rules violations going on every weekend due to either a simple misunderstanding or just plain ignorance of the rules.

I take pride in the fact I have a "better than average" understanding of the rules and people will ask me for a rule if they are playing with me.

Only way to stop the constant rule breaking would be to have officials walking the course during weekend medals etc, but that simply isn't practical at most clubs, so the rule breaking will go on and the few who do understand the correct rule will struggle to educate those who don't.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Taking a slightly different perspective.....

I played in the Scottish ladies this year and found myself in a horrible spot in a bunker with the wooden sleepers that comprised the back wall interfering with my shot. I attempted to play out at an angle rather than right at the pin but hit the sleepers and missed the ball. I was then looking at maybe just trying to move the ball within the bunker and get out with my next shot... Taking a lot of time to come up with a plan....

Anyway, a rules official was nearby and had seen all this. She came down and informed me that, in fact, I could get a free drop away from the sleepers.

So, if I had known the rules I would have saved myself a shot. (Or the multiple shots it would have cost me if the rules official hadn't intervened.) And THAT would have been worth it.

 

[bladeplayer]

Taking a slightly different perspective.....

I played in the Scottish ladies this year and found myself in a horrible spot in a bunker with the wooden sleepers that comprised the back wall interfering with my shot. I attempted to play out at an angle rather than right at the pin but hit the sleepers and missed the ball. I was then looking at maybe just trying to move the ball within the bunker and get out with my next shot... Taking a lot of time to come up with a plan....

Anyway, a rules official was nearby and had seen all this. She came down and informed me that, in fact, I could get a free drop away from the sleepers.

So, if I had known the rules I would have saved myself a shot. (Or the multiple shots it would have cost me if the rules official hadn't intervened.) And THAT would have been worth it.

Out of total curiosity are rules officials allowed to offer advice , or just answer queries ?

 

[G1BB0]

depends who they offer it to

 

[virtuocity]

Rules violations, whether deliberate or not, will occur in every sweep and medal in every club, every week.

My favourite which I hear of ALL the time is the 'plugged in the rough' rule. The noticeboard couldn't be clearer- during winter rules, a ball embedded in its own pitch mark in CLOSELY MOWN AREA may be lifted and dropped without penalty. Cue guys in the rough digging out their muddy ball, giving it a good wipe and dropping it.

Another classic is the water in bunkers rule. I have heard a few times "Aye, just drop it of there- it's casual water".

 

[chrisd]

Taking a slightly different perspective.....

I played in the Scottish ladies this year and found myself in a horrible spot in a bunker with the wooden sleepers that comprised the back wall interfering with my shot. I attempted to play out at an angle rather than right at the pin but hit the sleepers and missed the ball. I was then looking at maybe just trying to move the ball within the bunker and get out with my next shot... Taking a lot of time to come up with a plan....

Anyway, a rules official was nearby and had seen all this. She came down and informed me that, in fact, I could get a free drop away from the sleepers.

So, if I had known the rules I would have saved myself a shot. (Or the multiple shots it would have cost me if the rules official hadn't intervened.) And THAT would have been worth it.

This isn't a "normal" situation though where people don't even bother to acquaint themselves with even the most basic of rules knowledge. You did, as I'm sure you always do Karen, that is to play to the real rules and I don't have any problem with someone who, like you, didn't know what amounts to a local rule, it's just a shame she didn't tell you before your first attempt!

 

[chrisd]

Rules violations, whether deliberate or not, will occur in every sweep and medal in every club, every week.

My favourite which I hear of ALL the time is the 'plugged in the rough' rule. The noticeboard couldn't be clearer- during winter rules, a ball embedded in its own pitch mark in CLOSELY MOWN AREA may be lifted and dropped without penalty. Cue guys in the rough digging out their muddy ball, giving it a good wipe and dropping it.

Another classic is the water in bunkers rule. I have heard a few times "Aye, just drop it of there- it's casual water".

Absolutely right Dave, I played with a guy who asked if he could get a drop for his ball plugged a couple of weeks ago. He was in thick, deep rough and I doubt his ball even managed to reach the soil let alone be plugged - even if the rules had allowed relief!

 

[FairwayDodger]

Out of total curiosity are rules officials allowed to offer advice , or just answer queries ?

Not sure, to be honest, was just rather grateful at the time!

 

[FairwayDodger]

This isn't a "normal" situation though where people don't even bother to acquaint themselves with even the most basic of rules knowledge. You did, as I'm sure you always do Karen, that is to play to the real rules and I don't have any problem with someone who, like you, didn't know what amounts to a local rule, it's just a shame she didn't tell you before your first attempt!

I chatted with her after my round and it transpired it wasn't a local rule, it's a rule of golf. Just one I wasn't terribly aware of never having played a course with bunkers like that.

 

[rickg]

I don't doubt for a second that there are numerous rules violations going on every weekend due to either a simple misunderstanding or just plain ignorance of the rules.

I take pride in the fact I have a "better than average" understanding of the rules and people will ask me for a rule if they are playing with me.

Only way to stop the constant rule breaking would be to have officials walking the course during weekend medals etc, but that simply isn't practical at most clubs, so the rule breaking will go on and the few who do understand the correct rule will struggle to win any comps

Corrected that last bit... :whoo:

Seriously though, the guys that end up with better scores because they don't know (or don't play by) all the rules also can influence the CSS, so not only do you not win the comp, you don't get the handicap cut either......or worse, you go up when the CSS comes down. :rant:

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

On Sat I went to pull up a PP for teeing up at least 3 inches in front of markers...as I went to do that another PP told me just to let it go as the guy is nightmare slow when teeing off and we just wanted to keep going ahead of the group behind - so I turned a blind eye.

 

[chrisd]

I chatted with her after my round and it transpired it wasn't a local rule, it's a rule of golf. Just one I wasn't terribly aware of never having played a course with bunkers like that.

Hardly anyone knows all the rules so its likely we've all transgressed and benefitted (or not) from a situation where we shouldn't, that's not cheating in my opinion and when it happens we hope we learn the correct action in the future. I just worry when people play regularly in competitions and don't even know the very basics and, like I had last week, someone who acknowledged that I do study the rules and that he didn't, but argued vehemently that if you play a provisional and find your first ball in a water hazard you have to play the provisional come what may! How many others will he misadvise

 

[Maninblack4612]

Out of total curiosity are rules officials allowed to offer advice , or just answer queries ?

It's not offering advice, it's stating a fact, just as telling a FC what the distance to the hole is, giving facts is within the rules.

 

[bladeplayer]

It's not offering advice, it's stating a fact, just as telling a FC what the distance to the hole is, giving facts is within the rules.

Where i appreciate what you are saying, i still wonder if its ok for a rules official to offer/give an individual information , surely they are there in only an official ruling/advisory capacity if required,, then again maybe not

 

[doublebogey7]

Where i appreciate what you are saying, i still wonder if its ok for a rules official to offer/give an individual information , surely they are there in only an official ruling/advisory capacity if required,, then again maybe not

This much depends on whether it is match play or stroke play. Referees have no authority to intervene in matches other than in relation to Rule 1-3, 6-7 or 33-7, unless they has been assigned to accompany the match for its duration. (see definition of a referee).

In stroke play referees are not obliged to offer advice on the rules, but it is recommended that they do so. (decision 34-2/3).

 

[Fyldewhite]

Hardly anyone knows all the rules so its likely we've all transgressed and benefitted (or not) from a situation where we shouldn't, that's not cheating in my opinion and when it happens we hope we learn the correct action in the future. I just worry when people play regularly in competitions and don't even know the very basics and, like I had last week, someone who acknowledged that I do study the rules and that he didn't, but argued vehemently that if you play a provisional and find your first ball in a water hazard you have to play the provisional come what may! How many others will he misadvise

I think this hits the nail on the head Chris. In every 4 ball probably one player will "take the lead" if any dodgy situations arise or an ill informed "committee" decision will be made without anyone ever getting near a rule book. The problem is that many, many decisions taken like this will be wrong and worse still this becomes fact to the other 3 playing who then go on to pass on their new "knowledge" to others thus adding to the many common myths out there (declaring lost, provisional ball, NPR etc etc). Still amazes me how many good golfers are very poor on rules.

 

[chrisd]

I think this hits the nail on the head Chris. In every 4 ball probably one player will "take the lead" if any dodgy situations arise or an ill informed "committee" decision will be made without anyone ever getting near a rule book. The problem is that many, many decisions taken like this will be wrong and worse still this becomes fact to the other 3 playing who then go on to pass on their new "knowledge" to others thus adding to the many common myths out there (declaring lost, provisional ball, NPR etc etc). Still amazes me how many good golfers are very poor on rules.

What really peed me off was that after about half an hour of arguing, everyone telling him I was correct and several examples of how daft his interpretation would be in a real situation he still insisted he was right. No offer to check and come back, so in the end I mailed him the rule and still he hasn't acknowledged it!

 

[daymond]

To pass the driving test (motoring) you have to take and pass the written test. Why not a rules test before you can enter competitions?