Irrational hole length vs club selection

[Mudball]

I m no longer a regular player but I still kind of hit my regular lengths (it’s the direction that I have a problem with😫 )
Anyways played Mill Ride (Foxys old club).. the 11th is a P3 165y with water in front. My Sunday best says it is a decent 6irom to the front and roll up. My 5i would carry it or hit the back and roll off. The safe option is to go long.
I have played the hole about 3 times and yet to understand why my regular 6i comes short. It is very irritating since the hole is also slightly downhill and so my 6i should hit the centre. In this case my 5i hit flush gets the centre.

Why, Oh Why do holes ‘play long’ or ‘play short’ rather than just follow the laws of physics ..

 

[Imurg]

Breeze, temperature, quality of strike....

Just learn to "Dambuster" it.....

 

[robinthehood]

Because people base their yardages on best hit rather than most likely...

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Always amazes me when when people hit for example their 150 yard club when they have 150 yards into a 20 mph wind

 

[Imurg]

Players can also tighten up a bit when playing over water, making a smooth swing more difficult.
Also...how consistent is your swing speed?
Say you swing your 6 iron, on average, 80mph.
If you swing a tad slower, say, 77 mph...at just over 3 yards per mph of swing speed you've lost nearly 10 yards.
Splash!

 

[Crow]

Carry distances and roll out distances, often overlooked (or exaggerated!) when we think of what club to take.

 

[TheDiablo]

Your 'Sunday best' is a 6i that just carries the water.

Why the hell would you choose 6i as the right club?!

 

[MadAdey]

With Crow on this one. A lot of golfers would benefit going to a range with real balls and have a TRACKMAN session to find out their iron carry distances.

 

[Slab]

I think what Imurg says is very true for me at least so I'm trying to always have a mindset to club for the back of the green when its a forced carry (+/- the clubing for wind etc)
Only occasionally will I hit it pure & run out the back, more often its middle of the green (inc roll)

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Played that hole a lot and it should be a simple hole if you take enough club but I've seen it cause some carnage and its caught me out before. I simply take one more club and swing smoothly. Even if it goes back edge or long I fancy my chances more of chipping and putting for par than having to take a drop or reload if I come up short

 

[Crow]

With Crow on this one. A lot of golfers would benefit going to a range with real balls and have a TRACKMAN session to find out their iron carry distances.

Hey Adey, where've you been?
Welcome back!

 

[jim8flog]

Anyways played Mill Ride (Foxys old club).. the 11th is a P3 165y with water in front. My Sunday best says it is a decent 6irom to the front and roll up. My 5i would carry it or hit the back and roll off.
..

and what are your distances with the club held half an inch further down the grip etc

A large part of the skill of golf is controlling distance without just changing the club. Try going out with just half a set of irons occasionally and working out how to get more or less from a particular club than you standard distance.

 

[duncan mackie]

Why, Oh Why do holes ‘play long’ or ‘play short’ rather than just follow the laws of physics ..

I would just like to say that, in my experience, there are some!

Yes there are the ones that look flat but are really quite uphill - and vice versa - but then there are the others.

Not many, but they get you double and triple checking distances with every device available and eventually get you to either accept that there's something weird going on (probably between what you know, can see and actually believe...) or you have a lifetime of short, long ahead of you!

To add a couple of small but potentially significant elements....
1. Slope of teeing ground or fairway - playing from even a small upslope can reduce carry distance significantly
2. Trees - these can turn a breeze from many angles into a headwind, potentially only at height, and can also mask a headwind completely from the position the ball is being played from.

 

[Orikoru]

The 8th at my course is a par 3, it's around 160 yards in length, which generally should be a decent 7 iron to get you on the front. For some reason on this hole whenever I used to hit a 7 iron, miles through the back. A couple of weeks ago I took 8 iron, and even that went through the back - all three of my group were also long, with whatever club they took. And there was no wind. We all had a good laugh about it. But the idea of hitting a 9 iron for a 160 yard hole is ludicrous to me. The hole doesn't look to be downhill, but I think right before the front edge, where you might typically land your shot, is a little downslope that just launches the ball miles, hence it's extremely difficult to hold the green - and that might be why it appears to 'play shorter' than it really is.

For holes over water it's more a mental thing I think. I try really hard to ignore the water and just imagine I'm playing to the green as normal, so that I'm not tempted to go up a club and launch it too far, or stick with the same club but subconsciously try and hit it too harder to 'make sure' - which is a recipe for disaster. But still sometimes that water is in the back of your mind and makes you not quite as free and easy as you would be if it wasn't there. Slightly stiff on the swing, lose 10 yards, splash.

 

[DeanoMK]

I did a gap test recently:

7 iron: 149 carry, 160 total.
6 iron: 161 carry, 173 total.
5 iron: 174 carry, 185 total.

I know these can change based on numerous details so for me, I'd be playing the 5 iron with either a choked down grip or a 75% swing.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I find playing the ball off a tee peg always seems to shorten the carry, and also give more stop on landing. As a result, I generally add 1 club onto the distance when hitting off a tee peg.

 

[Orikoru]

I did a gap test recently:

7 iron: 149 carry, 160 total.
6 iron: 161 carry, 173 total.
5 iron: 174 carry, 185 total.

I know these can change based on numerous details so for me, I'd be playing the 5 iron with either a choked down grip or a 75% swing.

I have absolutely no idea what my carry distances are. I work on rough total distances, based on experience out on the course, and that's all I've got to go on. That and the knowledge that the higher the loft, the less of the total distance will be roll.

 

[Orikoru]

I find playing the ball off a tee peg always seems to shorten the carry, and also give more stop on landing. As a result, I generally add 1 club onto the distance when hitting off a tee peg.

Or maybe you're just teeing it too high?

 

[garyinderry]

I find playing the ball off a tee peg always seems to shorten the carry, and also give more stop on landing. As a result, I generally add 1 club onto the distance when hitting off a tee peg.

Liverbirdie taught me that for par 3s. Great tip. I don't hit a high ball so this can help me immensely.

For the shot in the op I'd tee it up nice and high. Club up and sweep it off the tee.

 

[Grant85]

I m no longer a regular player but I still kind of hit my regular lengths (it’s the direction that I have a problem with😫 )
Anyways played Mill Ride (Foxys old club).. the 11th is a P3 165y with water in front. My Sunday best says it is a decent 6irom to the front and roll up. My 5i would carry it or hit the back and roll off. The safe option is to go long.
I have played the hole about 3 times and yet to understand why my regular 6i comes short. It is very irritating since the hole is also slightly downhill and so my 6i should hit the centre. In this case my 5i hit flush gets the centre.

Why, Oh Why do holes ‘play long’ or ‘play short’ rather than just follow the laws of physics ..

Personal view is that if you have a 6 iron you hit 165, I'd guess you are standing in the fairway, looking at the green (with no forced carry) and the flag as 165 yards away.
You hit a good shot and it might end up pin high. Excellent, you hit your 6 iron 165.

However, while most of that is carry... a good few yards will be bounce / roll.

Best chance with a 165 hole and a forced carry is that you just squeeze it past the hazard and it bounces / rolls onto the green. In reality, you need to take the front out of play and err on the long side.

Obviously elite players are hitting a 165 shot with a lot more loft and spin, which will probably stop roughly where it lands (maybe even spin back a few yards). An amatuer hitting a shot that distance will not generate the same kind of speed / spin so a bigger portion of the 165 will be bounce & roll.