Cheating on the course

[Britishshooting]

How would you or your club deal with it?

We all received an E-Mail originally via BRS stating this:

It has been brought to my attention that a member playing in the single stableford club competition yesterday, cheated by kicking their ball out of the tree's and into the fairway and then improving their lie further, with their club head.
I am writing this email in the slim hope that the individual will see the error of their ways and admit formally to myself, their guilt.
The matter would then be brought in front of the Club Committee, for a decision on any further action.

Blatant cheating is something that should never happen at this club or indeed, any other golf club.
Golf is a game of integrity and behaviour like this, will not be accepted.

It appears the individual has not stepped forward so a further E-mail has come through today:


I have been asked to publish the letter below re: alleged cheating, by a member who witnessed the incident, as there were some inaccuracies in my first e-mail .

The invitation, to discuss and admit their guilt formally with me personally, is still open.

Regards
Chairman


1st July 2019

Re: Cheating on the course

On Sunday 23rd June I was playing a single stableford competition, teeing off at 08:40 am.

On the 2nd hole my playing partner hit his ball over the trees and towards the 3rd tee. While I was waiting for him to take his shot back over the trees and towards the 2nd green I noticed an individual on the 4th hole. His ball had landed in the longish grass at the top of the ditch which had prevented it from rolling into the ditch, just past the roadway.

I noticed him look back towards his playing partner who was some 40/50 yards away back towards where the old ditch used to be. His partner was lining up his shot so would not have been able to see what I was about to witness. The individual kicked his ball out of the long grass and into the second cut, not happy with his lie he used his golf club to guide his ball to a more favourable position.

I was really mad with myself for not confronting the individual there and then. This is why I brought it to the attention of the Chairman.

In the e-mail George sent out he reported it had been kicked out of the trees. This was incorrect, it was kicked out of some longish grass at the top of the ditch 10 yards up from the road and some 15 yards short of the first tree on the right hand side of the fourth fairway.

I feel very strongly about this sort of behaviour and also about other incidents that are moaned about but not reported.

I think everyone should report cheating, whether it is incorrect scores, dropping another ball when theirs can’t be found or are out of bounds, or gaining cheating lies.

This individual must know who he is.

I’m quite prepared to stand with him in front of the committee and face to face report what I 100% saw, but let’s hope he does the right thing , comes forward and owns up to his cheating actions.

In the mean time I will be removing my name from any single or 4-man team event he has his name down for.

Not good and there is no excuse for such behaviour, what would be a suitable course of action should the individual admit his actions, can much be done if he doesn't??

 

[Orikoru]

Why would you report cheating and not name the person responsible if you knew who it was?

 

[Britishshooting]

Why would you report cheating and not name the person responsible if you knew who it was?

I believe the name of the person is between the witness and the chairman currently. The Chairman wants the cheat to own up on his own admission before being challenged I think.

I also think the Chairman is using the possibility of not releasing his name as leverage to get him to own up to it hence not publicly stating it yet.

 

[Bxm Foxy]

I think purely to see If he'll own up for his actions.

 

[patricks148]

always a tricky one, but i doubt a cheat would openly come forward.

My club had a well publicised cheating incident that went to the Scottish high court, with the plaintive siting the club for deformation of character after he was asked to leave the club.

I'd imagine the best way to deal with this would be through committee from the start with the witness making what he saw down to the club to investigate and take action

 

[Jensen]

The letter sent clearly indicates the date and time it took place. As other members will be able to narrow it down to the 3 or 4 ball involved, I don't think the offender has much chance but to come forward. He's practically been named by association.
His punishment must certainly be a ban of some sort together with the public shame

 

[Slab]

The Chairman must already know who it is (otherwise how would he have checked the scorecard to make sure the player didn't NR the hole?)

With that in mind & other factors its a risky business to put this out to the members rather than simply writing to the 'accused' to call them to a meeting

Punishing someone for wrongdoing (if it comes to that) is fine. Using their transgression as an example to others (in effect another punishment) is a very risky strategy that could backfire

 

[USER1999]

I assume the person seen doing this scored on that hole? If he put it down as a blob, then it is not cheating as such, just mucking about. Ok, it is practicing on the course, but then is continuing playing when you can no longer score the same as?

If he scored the hole, then yes, guilty as.

 

[Wolf]

The Chairman must already know who it is (otherwise how would he have checked the scorecard to make sure the player didn't NR the hole?)

With that in mind & other factors its a risky business to put this out to the members rather than simply writing to the 'accused' to call them to a meeting

Punishing someone for wrongdoing (if it comes to that) is fine. Using their transgression as an example to others (in effect another punishment) is a very risky strategy that could backfire

I think exactly the same as this. Clearly knowing what group he was in means they know who it was. Therefore to me the sensible course of action would be to invite that player to a meeting to discuss the matter and carry out any sanctions. By putting it out openly to all the members as an example before guilt is factually established through admission or meeting sets a dangerous precedent for the club.

 

[Imurg]

I assume the person seen doing this scored on that hole? If he put it down as a blob, then it is not cheating as such, just mucking about. Ok, it is practicing on the course, but then is continuing playing when you can no longer score the same as?

If he scored the hole, then yes, guilty as.

Good point.
He could have lost 2 balls by then and have blobbed the hole
If he's just playing up then the fact he's used a leather wedge isn't relevant to the competition.

 

[Britishshooting]

Good point.
He could have lost 2 balls by then and have blobbed the hole
If he's just playing up then the fact he's used a leather wedge isn't relevant to the competition.

I played against the chairman in the single knockout last week, he obviously didn't want to get into specifics but the individual did score 3 points on the hole. Made a par on the par 5 with a shot. He didn't place in the competition fortunately.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think exactly the same as this. Clearly knowing what group he was in means they know who it was. Therefore to me the sensible course of action would be to invite that player to a meeting to discuss the matter and carry out any sanctions. By putting it out openly to all the members as an example before guilt is factually established through admission or meeting sets a dangerous precedent for the club.

I'm with you and as times are quoted it won't be rocket science to work out who was in the group and so "flagged" by association and it seems a rocky path. Far better to simply call the person to the committee and have the case put forward and give them the opportunity to provide a defence and then if necessary take action from there. Assuming the player completed the hole and was therefore in the comp I would imagine these would be pretty far reaching and that person (if guilty) will have a tough time at the club.

Far better in my opinion to deal with the matter first, and then put a notice out so members are aware its been dealt with (stops some of the rumours) and a general shot across everyones bows that cheating will not be tolerated and stringent penalties if found to be doing so will be handed out

 

[Imurg]

I played against the chairman in the single knockout last week, he obviously didn't want to get into specifics but the individual did score 3 points on the hole. Made a par on the par 5 with a shot. He didn't place in the competition fortunately.

Fair enough

 

[jim8flog]

.

I also think the Chairman is using the possibility of not releasing his name as leverage to get him to own up to it hence not publicly stating it yet.

The person should not be publicly named. It leaves a club open to a lawsuit. All meetings to discuss this should be kept confidential by the committee as should any disciplinary meeting.

 

[Orikoru]

I wouldn't be surprised if he comes forward, but in order to clear his name with some excuses rather than owning up. If he admits it fully then enough people know that his name will be tarnished forever anyway. Word gets round. He'll have to go full gung-ho and claim the chap didn't see what he thought he saw and it's one word against his.

 

[nickjdavis]

Frankly I think it is shocking that the committee have chosen to deal with this in such an open public manner. As has been said previously, it would be no issue for the rest of the club membership to determine who was being talked about so the guys name is "public knowledge" before he even has been given a chance to provide his own side of the story...even if his version of events is indefensible he should be able to give it before being publicly outed.

The committee should have written to the bloke directly, inviting him to explain his actions.

However...with the fact that the person wasn't challenged at the time, and there were presumably no other witnesses, it could quite easily come down to one persons word against the others....if the guy denies that the offence ever took place then it would be a struggle to determine an appropriate sanction to apply.

 

[Wolf]

I wouldn't be surprised if he comes forward, but in order to clear his name with some excuses rather than owning up. If he admits it fully then enough people know that his name will be tarnished forever anyway. Word gets round. He'll have to go full gung-ho and claim the chap didn't see what he thought he saw and it's one word against his.

That's actually another really good point. If the fella denies it and it becomes the word of one person v another the committee cannot sanction it surely because to take one word over another is a hard thing to do, if there had been a couple of witnesses stating it possibly easier as it's not 1 v 1 where the guy could just say he has a personal problem with me and is trying to make me out to be something I'm not. So to have gone so public so soon without speaking to the accused is very poor from the club.

I've been witness to something similar in past and had to give a statement to what I saw, but in my case there was also another witness who came forward independently so was much easier to make the case against the guy who did knowingly cheat.

 

[Britishshooting]

The person should not be publicly named. It leaves a club open to a lawsuit. All meetings to discuss this should be kept confidential by the committee as should any disciplinary meeting.

I agree, I came back from my honeymoon some 4 days after the E-mail was originally sent and the only topic of conversation seemed to be this and people making assumptions as to who they thought it may be.

I'm surprised the club took the approach they did to be quite honest. I think it would have been much better to keep between the witness, committee and the potential culprit.

This E-Mail was released this morning, it's now lit the fire again and everyone will be speculating who it may or may not be.

I've come across this situation twice before, but it's never took this approach.

 

[Orikoru]

That's actually another really good point. If the fella denies it and it becomes the word of one person v another the committee cannot sanction it surely because to take one word over another is a hard thing to do, if there had been a couple of witnesses stating it possibly easier as it's not 1 v 1 where the guy could just say he has a personal problem with me and is trying to make me out to be something I'm not. So to have gone so public so soon without speaking to the accused is very poor from the club.

I've been witness to something similar in past and had to give a statement to what I saw, but in my case there was also another witness who came forward independently so was much easier to make the case against the guy who did knowingly cheat.

Agree. The witness will know what they saw, but if the culprit just flatly denies it, I suspect they would need a second witness or they can't really take action against him as it's one v one.

 

[Slab]

Reading the chairman’s amateur judge/jury again it doesn’t show him in a good light (not as bad as a cheat obviously)

a member playing in the single stableford club competition yesterday, cheated by kicking their ball out of the tree's and into the fairway and then improving their lie further, with their club head.

Not 'was reported to' or even 'was seen to' the players guilt has already been predetermined

I am writing this email in the slim hope that the individual will see the error of their ways and admit formally to myself, their guilt.

Not 'meet to discuss' or suggest any kind of formal hearing prior to reaching a decision. Just the option to admit guilt. Again this has already predetermined the guilt or otherwise

The guy may well be guilty, but for the club to publicly state they will not offer any fair hearing to determine that guilt, it gives the 'cheat' all the ammunition he might need to use 'offense as the best defense' and deflect from whether he's guilty or not. The Chairman as already determined it