iPhone apps and use in comps.

[haplesshacker]

I have been 'advised' by the club that I cannot use my iPhone on the golf course.

It's not the phone itself, but what it's capable of. There is nothing wrong with the GPS apps, but that there are apps for reading greens, measuring elavation etc. It does not matter if you don't have these apps on your iPhone. The fact that they're available has ruled the device illegal for competion purposes at the club.

So whilest you have saved hundreds of pounds by not buying a dedicated golf GPS, you're screwed anyway!

The cynic in me says it's because the shop can't sell apps but can sell, and does sell dedicated units. The other side of me says that they're just following guidelines from the R and A.

Either way. It's all a bit 'backward'.

I also assume that I cannot use the phone to record any stats whilst playing as it throws up the same potential issue?

I would imagine then that best advice for iPhone users is not to take the thing out on the course at all. I'd hate any doubt or accusations to be levelled at me just because I own a versatile phone!

It would be worth checking with your own club before paying anything out for a GPS iPhone app. Shame the feature in GM didn't mention this.

 

[SammmeBee]

Are phones not banned on the golf course at most 'decent' clubs anyway?

 

[haplesshacker]

As you know. The 'phone' function can be disabled. To all intents and purposes, it's just an electronic gadget. Just like a laser device or other GPS.

I guess that it's not a 'decent' club!!

 

[SammmeBee]

I think you answered your own question....if it's like a laser or gps and it can measure slope or temperature (whether turned on or not) then it should not be allowed.....

 

[RichardC]

But are there the same issues with SkyCaddies? I thought that they were allowed

 

[haplesshacker]

Most of the GPS apps are legit. It's the other apps that cause an issue.

I am not a 'terminator' style robot. Even if my phone does give the elevation, temp, wind strength and direction etc. It doesn't mean that I'll play a better shot because of knowing all of this. I also doubt if any of us would do any better than using the senses we already poses.(sp)

My tale is perhaps more a word of caution, than a question.

TBH if someone I was playing with was using Golfshot, Freecaddie, Mycaddie etc on their iPhone during a round, I wouldn't mind. If however they started placing it on the green and using an elavation app, then I'd pipe up. After all the GPS apps do exactly what the Skycaddy and Golfbuddies of this world do.

 

[haplesshacker]

But are there the same issues with SkyCaddies? I thought that they were allowed

Yes they are. But under a local ruling. It's the other apps that make the iPhone an issue.

 

[RichardC]

But are there the same issues with SkyCaddies? I thought that they were allowed

Yes they are. But under a local ruling. It's the other apps that make the iPhone an issue.

Thats what I thought, but I also thought that GPS apps on the iphone were ok too, as im currently using GolfShot.

 

[haplesshacker]

You would need to check with your club. As I said. I'd hate to be accused of cheating in a comp, Even if it's self evident that you've only used the GPS function of the iPhone. It's the other apps that you could use that cause the problem.

 

[Imurg]

I suppose there's nothing to stop you downloading a windspeed app while out on the course - that might be the main reason behind the decision. Not what you've got on the phone but what you could get.

 

[Leftie]

As you know. The 'phone' function can be disabled.

You may be right but I've yet to see anyone who takes a phone on to the course not check it for missed calls, messages etc during a round.

With so many "apps" available now, there are so many different ways for people to cheat. e.g. you look at the hole you are playing on the app, check the compass function, go to a weather app to check wind direction and likely speed, line up the slope on the spirit level function, etc, etc.

ALL mobile phones should be banned on the golf course. The only times one should be allowed to be carried is when a possible distraction like HID about to give birth is expected, or possibly when you are out on your own in the evening. Even then it should be switched off.

 

[acesup1504]

What a load of rubbish.

What makes it illegal if you have apps downloaded on your phone. Simply being available to buy does not make it illegal.

I think your club has gone overboard on the new ruling as your cynical mind thinks its forcing you into buying a skycaddie or the likes

But if you have the newer Iphone with the compass software already on it. It is illegal wether you use it or not.

So does you club have a specific local ruling banning phones with GPS for use as a DMD? If not i would continue to use it providing it meets all the rules around DMD/phone GPS and if someone was to question you on it, provide the rule book to show that you are not breaking the DMD rules.

 

[Leftie]

What makes it illegal if you have apps downloaded on your phone. Simply being available to buy does not make it illegal.

If you have a DMD that has the facility to use inbuilt or uploaded operations not sanctioned by the R & A then that device should not be used for competitions, even if those facilities are "switched off"



I think your club has gone overboard on the new ruling as your cynical mind thinks its forcing you into buying a skycaddie or the likes

Re-read my post. I never mentioned my club, or anyone elses for that matter



But if you have the newer Iphone with the compass software already on it. It is illegal wether you use it or not.

So your point above was what exactly?



So does you club have a specific local ruling banning phones with GPS for use as a DMD? If not i would continue to use it providing it meets all the rules around DMD/phone GPS and if someone was to question you on it, provide the rule book to show that you are not breaking the DMD rules.

Again, I didn't talk about my club.

I'm quite happy for any complying DMD to be used. If there are apps on it that are non complying then the device should not be used for competitions no matter whether it is a phone, trolly with built in GPS, laser with slope facility or whatever.

My main gripe, which you obviously did not appreciate, is that if the DMD device is a mobile phone, then the phone is switched on and even if it is in silent mode or whatever people will look at it every so often during the round to see if they have voice mail or messages. If they have, they are likely to make a call or send a text. As I said, mobile phones should be banned from a golf course.

And that is MY view. Grrrrrrrrr...

Ah. That's better. Rant over

 

[haplesshacker]

I didn't intend this to be a general phones on the courses debate, as all phone functionality can be disabled. But more of a why ban them when these other apps are pretty useless anyway.

However, it would appear that as it stands, that anyone with the latest generation iPhone cannot use their device as a GPS DMD because it has an inbuilt compass. Local rule or not. Though I will need to do some homework on the R and A rulings regarding this.

Perhaps someone at the mag would like to clarify this in the rules section? Or one of our more enlightened forum members.

I find it hard to believe that the likes of Golfshot etc have spent time and money developing GPS apps that cannot be used because the phone has an inbuilt compass!? Therefore making the device (though not the GPS app) illegal.

 

[acesup1504]

Leftie, My post was not aimed as reply to yours but to the orignal post.

But for everyone here is the udated claification of the rules.

http://www.usga.org/news/2009/November/USGA-R-A-Joint-Statement-On-Electronic-Devices/


Personally i dont see any issues with a Mobile Phones used as GPS DMD provided the phone function is turned off and any software installed is within the guidlines.
I would happily stand my ground following the rules laid down above that everything is perfectly legal as Sky Caddie

 

[haplesshacker]

Okay, so I've read the link. However, am I actually any clearer on where these devices stand.

The ruling specificaly mentions a device that can measure wind speed, temperature and slope. The iPhone does not have a temperature gauge nor is it an anomitor (wind speed thing). Though I will concede that it is possible to download an app that will give you elevation. Though I don't recall reading anything about a compass.

So it's the elavation app (which is not golf specific) and the green reading apps that are the issue. Therefore making every iPhone illegal and not just the latest generation ones.

As I mentioned earlier. Why spend time and money developing perfectly legal GPS apps when the device is illegal? It doesn't make sense.

 

[haplesshacker]

It would also appear that it doesn't matter if you don't have the 'illegal' apps loaded. The fact that they can be loaded is enough to warrent the device illegal.

Which got me thinking. Some electric trollies do have a 'live' temperature reading. Although this facility can be disabled, are you telling me that you cannot use this trolley for a competitive round? And would you have someone thrown out of a comp because their trolley has this facility, even if turned off?

Common sense, surely??

 

[acesup1504]

It would also appear that it doesn't matter if you don't have the 'illegal' apps loaded. The fact that they can be loaded is enough to warrent the device illegal.

I think the key sentance is "and the device does not have any other “non-conforming” features. This is the case even if these other features are not being used"

I dont see how this reads as any mobile phone which has an illegal application that is available to download is therefore illegal automatically.

 

[haplesshacker]

This is where the confusion comes in. Whilst I agree with your statement above. The link with the ruling also stipulates;

·         The device has the capability of gauging or measuring other conditions that might affect play (e.g., wind speed, gradient, temperature, etc), or;

We're agreed that the device (iphone) does have the capability to measure elavation and 'read' a green. So even if these apps aren't loaded, the fact that it has the capability to do so renders it illegal.

Well that's how I read it anyway.

 

[acesup1504]

As by your reading of the rules all DMD that use GPS would be rendered illegal. All GPS device have the ability to measure height change from 2 points. Its just that Sky Caddie software is not programmed to show that information.

Hence why it is legal to use as a DMD. Take that to the mobile phone again it has the potential to measure gradient via a GPS software. But if the correct software is installed that does not show gradient change it is no different to a sky caddie.