Intensive golf lessons

[HomerJSimpson]

I hit 300 balls on the range today — only hit the 8 and 9 iron and a handful with a new club

It’s a lot of balls and I was only trying to work on one thing — which I think I achieved as the number of flushed balls was surprisingly / pleasingly high. I will have another lesson in another week and if I’ve not mastered what I was supposed to be working on then it’ll be very annoying as I’ve just embedded some bad habits, after 300 balls ? But at least tonight, I feel confident and optimistic that there was improvement ??

I hardly ever go to the range as it’s such a ball-ache to get to, and on a day off (which I’ve given over to golf), I’d much rather play golf. I used a tripod as Boomy suggests. I would second the benefits of this 100%


As per the OP’s main point, I would certainly see the benefit of a 3 hour lesson…as long as it wasn’t a range-session. I had a 3 hour lesson twice - the first was on putting, chipping, pitching and full swing — this was excellent and v worthwhile. The second was all on a range and it’s a little too much

However, I feel like an intensive course wouldn’t necessarily be an awful idea for someone wanting to learn quickly. As there is so much to learn in golf, and I think an hour-long section on chipping, putting mechanics, green-reading, pitching, bunkers, full swing with irons, full swing with Driver, and course management / playing lesson could easily cover two full days and be worthwhile

My take is 300 in a session is too many and at some point a degree of fatigue will kick in. I would also be using data, even something basic like Toptracer to get some base numbers. I would also be filming my swing and sending some clips back to my pro for his take to make sure I am working on the right lines. That isn't to say I haven't stood there and hit that many trying to work on a specific change but in my experience, you get to a good point where the change is working and then start to make a few errors and become less focused on the job in hand

 

[Boomy]

My take is 300 in a session is too many and at some point a degree of fatigue will kick in. I would also be using data, even something basic like Toptracer to get some base numbers. I would also be filming my swing and sending some clips back to my pro for his take to make sure I am working on the right lines. That isn't to say I haven't stood there and hit that many trying to work on a specific change but in my experience, you get to a good point where the change is working and then start to make a few errors and become less focused on the job in hand

Great feedback Homer ?? Form over volume is key as practice makes permanent, not perfect.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Great feedback Homer ?? Form over volume is key as practice makes permanent, not perfect.

I've done the same as the poster and hit 300 balls in a session, although I did take breaks for fluids and some food. Think many of us have hit an excessive number of balls at some point. I did see some progress in these sessions but also realise that you reach a point where fatigue kicks in and any learned changes are replaced but old habits or poor swings as the tired body tries to work efficiently. Short sessions with some form of data capture, even if that's how many times you hit a specific target and seeing it on film (real v feel) pays better dividends

 

[evemccc]

My take is 300 in a session is too many and at some point a degree of fatigue will kick in. I would also be using data, even something basic like Toptracer to get some base numbers. I would also be filming my swing and sending some clips back to my pro for his take to make sure I am working on the right lines. That isn't to say I haven't stood there and hit that many trying to work on a specific change but in my experience, you get to a good point where the change is working and then start to make a few errors and become less focused on the job in hand

I was working on decreasing my launch angle — by hitting down on ball with hands ahead at impact. Saw the launch angle come down, but not quite as much as I would have liked

I was on a Toptracer and saw that I was achieving almost metronomic (for me) consistency in terms of distance

Also recorded some videos which are going off to my pro ??

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I was working on decreasing my launch angle — by hitting down on ball with hands ahead at impact

I was on a Toptracer and saw that I was achieving almost metronomic (for me) consistency in terms of distance

Also recorded some videos which are going off to my pro ??

I wasn't picking, merely stating what I found. If you were happy with quality and the video gets the pro's approval. If you are getting feedback from Toptracer and you are happy with how it is going then do what works for you

 

[Deleted member 23270]

There isn’t a single fixed number for any kind of adaptation - everyone is completely different. Some folk could adapt a stroke change in literally minutes worth of training.

You think so?

 

[garyinderry]

Dont over look the use of slow motion swings at home with no ball. I think these are a fantastic way to groove a new move or feel.

You dont need to put your back out hitting 300 balls a day to make big changes to your swing.

 

[Boomy]

You think so?

100% Dave - I’ve seen it with my own eyes with coaching swim stroke changes. It’s nothing to do with intelligence/muscle make up or anything like that - some people can just link the theory to the execution much quicker than others.
Even taking an average as guidance is difficult and can lead people to thinking that they’re failing, when in fact they’re not at all, it’s just taking longer for them to embed the changes. My golf coach and I were chatting about it in my lesson tonight… I’m one of the slower to embed movement learners ?

 

[Deleted member 23270]

100% Dave - I’ve seen it with my own eyes with coaching swim stroke changes. It’s nothing to do with intelligence/muscle make up or anything like that - some people can just link the theory to the execution much quicker than others.
Even taking an average as guidance is difficult and can lead people to thinking that they’re failing, when in fact they’re not at all, it’s just taking longer for them to embed the changes. My golf coach and I were chatting about it in my lesson tonight… I’m one of the slower to embed movement learners ?

You're comparing swimming to the golf swing?

 

[Boomy]

You're comparing swimming to the golf swing?

Nope (although they are very similar in the technical aspects and complexity of learning) I’m clearly talking about adaptation time, from a coaches experienced perspective. Not something I once read somewhere, sometime.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Nope (although they are very similar in the technical aspects and complexity of learning) I’m clearly talking about adaptation time, from a coaches experienced perspective. Not something I once read somewhere, sometime.

OK fair enough. So why do the top pros in the world spend hours on the range hitting thousands of balls in order to groove muscle memory?

 

[evemccc]

OK fair enough. So why do the top pros in the world spend hours on the range hitting thousands of balls in order to groove muscle memory?

Faldo said recently that the one thing he’d change about his golf career was his famous relentless work ethic…he’d practice far less intensely, and practice smarter

 

[HomerJSimpson]

OK fair enough. So why do the top pros in the world spend hours on the range hitting thousands of balls in order to groove muscle memory?

But they do so in a structured way, taking regular breaks and being careful with fluid and food intake. As they are doing it daily there is already a learned muscle memory so a lot of the work will be around short game and making very small swing changes. What they do daily compared to what club golfers like us is poles apart

 

[Boomy]

OK fair enough. So why do the top pros in the world spend hours on the range hitting thousands of balls in order to groove muscle memory?

Not all of them do, and likely based on what we are discussing now. Some will need longer to groove in/adapt changes, others won’t and will get more out of practising touch/feel shots. I’m sure it was an interview with Tommy Fleetwood I was listening to and he said he’s not one for hitting hundreds of balls at the range. Colin Montgomerie was the same I believe. It is the form of the repetition that is key, not the volume as discussed. And to be fair most of the time they have some of the best coaches in the world watching their every move and giving feedback. If you notice when watching pros practice there is a heck of a lot of non impact practice goes on, looking at form/position statically in between strikes.

 

[BigPhil14]

You think so?

I agree with Boomy also, different players can make changes at different speeds. Someone might be able to make a swing change in a few minutes, but then still need to practice that change to make it feel natural, whereas it might take someone else weeks to figure out how to get their body to do what its asking (and then they'd still need to take extra time to bed it in). In the same way that if you gave 2 people who had never played before 100 balls to hit with a coach telling them what to do, one of them would likely be able to pick it up quicker than the other.

In response to the original question, for me it comes down to whether it's an either/or situation with getting intensive coaching or coaching over a period of time. If you have the oppertunity to do both, I think the intensive practice week it could be a really useful way to really bed things in, as long as it is structured well by the coach. They should have a good understanding of how much information you are able to take, and how to plan the sessions to enable you increase your knowledge and understanding without overburdening you with things. It also gives enough time to get reps in with what you are trying to work on. Now if you can only do one type of coaching structure, I would say getting regular sessions over a few months would be more beneficial as you can learn a lot about your swing by practicing what you are trying to work on between sessions and self coaching with video (if your coach has told you want they want you to look/feel like). If you are already getting that though, then go for it on the intense week and feel like you're living the life of a pro for a bit and enjoy being out with your son!

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Guess the top players have got it wrong then.
Surprised at you Homer after all the lessons you have taken and hours of practice you keep telling us about. I'm starting to understand why you're not improving.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

I agree with Boomy also, different players can make changes at different speeds. Someone might be able to make a swing change in a few minutes, but then still need to practice that change to make it feel natural, whereas it might take someone else weeks to figure out how to get their body to do what its asking (and then they'd still need to take extra time to bed it in). In the same way that if you gave 2 people who had never played before 100 balls to hit with a coach telling them what to do, one of them would likely be able to pick it up quicker than the other.

In response to the original question, for me it comes down to whether it's an either/or situation with getting intensive coaching or coaching over a period of time. If you have the oppertunity to do both, I think the intensive practice week it could be a really useful way to really bed things in, as long as it is structured well by the coach. They should have a good understanding of how much information you are able to take, and how to plan the sessions to enable you increase your knowledge and understanding without overburdening you with things. It also gives enough time to get reps in with what you are trying to work on. Now if you can only do one type of coaching structure, I would say getting regular sessions over a few months would be more beneficial as you can learn a lot about your swing by practicing what you are trying to work on between sessions and self coaching with video (if your coach has told you want they want you to look/feel like). If you are already getting that though, then go for it on the intense week and feel like you're living the life of a pro for a bit and enjoy being out with your son!

Anyone can make a change but I'm talking about grooving it in until it becomes natural. That takes a he'll of a lot of repetitions. If it's so easy why don't we all swing it like Tiger?

 

[Boomy]

Guess the top players have got it wrong then.
Surprised at you Homer after all the lessons you have taken and hours of practice you keep telling us about. I'm starting to understand why you're not improving.

Who has said the top players have got anything wrong Dave? It’s your perception that is wrong, as has been discussed. Why try to get a last quip in.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Who has said the top players have got anything wrong Dave? It’s your perception that is wrong, as has been discussed. Why try to get a last quip in.

Because you don't seem to understand what it takes to make a permanent and repetitive swing change. Try it someday, maybe you'll get down to scratch.
I'm out.

 

[Boomy]

Anyone can make a change but I'm talking about grooving it in until it becomes natural. That takes a he'll of a lot of repetitions. If it's so easy why don't we all swing it like Tiger?

Because you’re not Tiger. Nobody said it was/is easy. We’ve just discussed different adaption rates and how volume alone doesn’t drive good results.