Improving putting

[Deleted member 29109]

In your proposal, you state explicitly that they will ?

Please highlight where I explicitly said every putt hits the hole?

 

[phillarrow]

I didnt, but feel you are missing my point, made several times : the line on a ball cannot be aligned with sufficient useful accuracy in the first place.
Or, moving back a step from the assumption implied in your question : do you believe that a line on a ball can be aligned within 2.25" deviation of the target ?

So, do you believe we can line up to a putt with sufficient accuracy without a line?

 

[Jimaroid]

By rough estimation, to align a line on a ball on a flat straight putt from 8 feet requires 0.7 degrees of accuracy.

Nobody can eyeball 0.7 degrees.

 

[phillarrow]

By rough estimation, to align a line on a ball on a flat straight putt from 8 feet requires 0.7 degrees of accuracy.

Nobody can eyeball 0.7 degrees.

How do you calculate 0.7 degrees?

By my calculation, using the width of the hole, I make it approx. 2.5 degrees from 8 foot and, therefore, 5 degrees from four foot - which is more like the distance from which using the line is proposed to be of real benefit.

 

[Jimaroid]

How do you calculate 0.7 degrees?

By my calculation, using the width of the hole, I make it approx. 2.5 degrees from 8 foot and, therefore, 5 degrees from four foot - which is more like the distance from which using the line is proposed to be of real benefit.

Gah! You're right. I derped an imperial to metric conversion.

Almost nobody can eyeball 2.5 degrees.

Edit: but also only half that angle will miss if you're aligning at the centre of the hole

 

[phillarrow]

Gah! You're right. I derped an imperial to metric conversion.

Almost nobody can eyeball 2.5 degrees.

Edit: but also only half that angle will miss if you're aligning at the centre of the hole

Of course we can...or we would never build straight walls! I think we're a lot better at seeing things that aren't aligned than people are giving us credit for. Also, don't forget that most of us choose a spot that is on our chosen line (especially for longer putts) and line up to that, so we're often only actually lining up to something a few inches away.

Significantly though...if you really believe we can't judge an aim when viewing the line from behind, how on earth do you think we ever aim correctly? Humans are far better at judging lines when viewing them 'down the line'. It makes no sense that anyone would think it is impossible to line a ball up accurately, but that we can do so without the line?

 

[Jimaroid]

Of course we can...or we would never build straight walls! I think we're a lot better at seeing things that aren't aligned than people are giving us credit for. Also, don't forget that most of us choose a spot that is on our chosen line (especially for longer putts) and line up to that, so we're often only actually lining up to something a few inches away.

Bad analogy, almost nobody can build a straight wall by eye either, we use tools and mechanical assistance to do so because experience shows you can't trust the human eye. Yes we can see things that are wrong or misaligned but we can also be tricked very easily - see any of many classic optical illusions of parallel lines.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's very time consuming to eyeball perfect alignment between a ball and the surface as you have to look at it from multiple view points and ultimately there's a good chance of it being wrong. The margin of error is so small that I was never confident in my alignment when I went through a phase of using a line on the ball.

 

[Springveldt]

Hopefully im not jinxing myself, but i had an absolute epiphany at the weekend - i have never made a tweak to my play that has had as much impact as this:

On long putts (say 10ft and over) where im focused on pace, i got myself set up as normal, but then looked at the hole as made my stroke. My pace control has never been better from long range. It could have been the greens were my perfect speed (was playing at a mates course) but i had so many easy gimmies, and "technically" never 3 putted.

I still played shorter putts (ones im expected to hole) as normal (looking at the ball) where im more focused on stroke and roll. Need to get our our clubs putting green this week to see if it was just a fluke!

Sasho Mackenzie calls it "Heads Up Putting".

https://golf.com/instruction/putting/heads-up-putting-technique/

 

[Jason.H]

The last 5 months I’ve been using the line on the ball to line up puts. Today I played early and didn’t use the line on the ball, still read the green then at address visualised the ball rolling into the hole and I putted better today. 34 puts is not great but will keep a track on puts per round and hopefully get it down to 30ish. I believe I’m pretty good at reading greens. I’ve been missing so many birdie chances and par saves that I’ve decided to change. Time will tell if the next 5 months i put better the the previous 5 months.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

It's hard enough to get a ball through a gate at 19 inches with a 0.5 tolerance without worrying how much a ball is aligned of kilter. I am content to use aimpoint for my read and trust the stroke I have worked on with my visio template and gates. Of course there will be bad reads and bad stroke on the course but I feel confident over the ball that I can make a few putts from 15-20 feet and get progressively more competent especially around 2-4 feet in particular

 

[SocketRocket]

Interesting thought but from what distance does this line start to matter more than pace? It has to at some point otherwise you'd always miss up to some distance from the hole?

I'm not suggesting Line doesn't matter, of course it does. I guess what I'm saying is pace always matters no matter what distance the putt. I would never try to miss a hole by a foot but it happens and will happen more on certain putts: long, difficult breaks etc. I am trying to drop the putt every time but I know if I have the pace right a miss will more than likely result in one more putt.

 

[evemccc]

I’m not by any stretch a ‘good putter’ - in fact pretty poor - I’d say it’s the worst part of my game. What is quite frustrating is that when I have had SAMLAB lessons and got fitted for a putter, each time I’ve used the relevant tech. the data I produce on the indoor studio with approx an 8 foot putting green is objectively ‘good’, and I putt very well on the indoor studio. But I struggle hugely on long putts on big greens, easily three-putting at least 10+ times a round at recent trips to RSG and at Birkdale.

I believe my green-reading in terms of line is pretty good, but I’m the first to admit my length putting is atrocious on long putts.
How to improve this??

 

[SocketRocket]

I’m not by any stretch a ‘good putter’ - in fact pretty poor - I’d say it’s the worst part of my game. What is quite frustrating is that when I have had SAMLAB lessons and got fitted for a putter, each time I’ve used the relevant tech. the data I produce on the indoor studio with approx an 8 foot putting green is objectively ‘good’, and I putt very well on the indoor studio. But I struggle hugely on long putts on big greens, easily three-putting at least 10+ times a round at recent trips to RSG and at Birkdale.

I believe my green-reading in terms of line is pretty good, but I’m the first to admit my length putting is atrocious on long putts.
How to improve this??

It maybe the way you strike the ball with the putter. I always swing the putter at the same tempo which for me is around 70 beats per minute, my back and through swing is the same length. My swing length increases for distance but the tempo is always the same for every putt. I find it hard to achieve the right place by poking the putter at the ball. I hope I've made that clear enough ?

 

[_MH_]

Hopefully im not jinxing myself, but i had an absolute epiphany at the weekend - i have never made a tweak to my play that has had as much impact as this:

On long putts (say 10ft and over) where im focused on pace, i got myself set up as normal, but then looked at the hole as made my stroke. My pace control has never been better from long range. It could have been the greens were my perfect speed (was playing at a mates course) but i had so many easy gimmies, and "technically" never 3 putted.

I still played shorter putts (ones im expected to hole) as normal (looking at the ball) where im more focused on stroke and roll. Need to get our our clubs putting green this week to see if it was just a fluke!

I started doing this about 3-4 months ago and it's really helped my pace control a lot. I think it appeals to my sense of logic - if I were to throw or roll a ball to a target then I'd look at the target - my brain and motor skills instinctively take care of the rest (hopefully). And I think because it appeals to me logically it gives me a degree more confidence - which is a massive part of putting.

Of course it still depends on the club face being perpendicular to the line and that's maybe a harder part to gauge when you're not looking at the ball - my 3 putts have declined but I would guess that so have my 1 putts - and that's where technique/grip come into it over the "feels". I'm also still hopeless at short putts within 2-4 feet. I think this is because I'm not convinced that looking at the hole helps them and so I waver between approaches and don't commit properly.

I also get taken the p*ss taken out of me quite a lot.

 

[Mike79]

This has been a really informative thread - putting is the worst aspect of my game with regular 3-putts in every round. I am using an Odyssey 2-ball that I got back in 2006 and find my common issue is leaving it short, line is ok but pace the biggest factor. I replaced the standard grip with a Fatso 5.0 and found it good for longer putts but anything less than 6-8 feet was hopeless. I then went back to a standard grip and still struggled. Now with an Odyssey Jumbo grip as somewhere in the middle, and still struggling. So either the putter is the issue, or it is the operator! While I'd love to say the putter is the problem to justify to myself getting a blade putter like a Scotty Cameron Newport 2, I think I will concede that it is operator error and dedicate a bit more time practicing using some of the tips people have suggested here.

 

[Neilds]

It maybe the way you strike the ball with the putter. I always swing the putter at the same tempo which for me is around 70 beats per second, my back and through swing is the same length. My swing length increases for distance but the tempo is always the same for every putt. I find it hard to achieve the right place by poking the putter at the ball. I hope I've made that clear enough ?

That's quick tempo!!!!

 

[Slab]

When preparing to putt, what proportion of time do folks spend thinking about line and what proportion is spent thinking about pace.
i.e if you take 20 seconds to assess a putt, take stance/PSR etc how many seconds is spent on determining line and how many on determining pace?

 

[Crow]

When preparing to putt, what proportion of time do folks spend thinking about line and what proportion is spent thinking about pace.
i.e if you take 20 seconds to assess a putt, take stance/PSR etc how many seconds is spent on determining line and how many on determining pace?

That would depend on the slopes of the green and how well I'd already been judging pace.

But in my case it's probably 50/50, I spend the most time admiring the fab putter that I've chosen for the day.

 

[Foxholer]

Here we go for the traditional "Annual Aimpoint Bashing Series"

But I'd just say, I've seen enough golfers have traditional golf lessons and have not improved, or, they've forgotten what they were supposed to do immediately they stepped on to the first tee. Aimpoint improved everyone's putting when we were on the green during the lesson and it's up to individuals if they adopted it afterwards - I, for one, found plenty in it to justify the cost.

That's good for you. Has the average number of putts reduced (or stopped heading upwards) since the course? That's presuming that you've adopted it, of course.
But it does the product no good when someone proselytizes about it and can't/won't provide actual evidence that it is actually beneficial.
Oh, and FWIW, I'm not anti-Aimpoin the concepts are actully sound imo and the cost isn't unreasonable an I got a 'mini-course' for free a while ago). I AM, however, anti-BS/twaddle!

 

[phillarrow]

When preparing to putt, what proportion of time do folks spend thinking about line and what proportion is spent thinking about pace.
i.e if you take 20 seconds to assess a putt, take stance/PSR etc how many seconds is spent on determining line and how many on determining pace?

Depends on too many factors to give one answer but for long putts I would be around 90% pace and 10% line, for medium putts, about 70/30, and for anything 8 foot-ish or less about 20/80 the other way.

That might change as my putting improves (since using a line on my ball I am getting miles better at short putts! ) but I am in the camp that pace is the most important thing to focus on for medium to long putts, and I can't see that changing to be honest.