IMMIGRATION

[Mrs Wiggles]

Really? You read the OP's drivel? Get rid of all migration? They live on handouts? No-one with a functioning brain believes that absolute pap. It's long since proven very few (except refugees) live off the state, and are net contributors. It's the sort of drivel that has led to this incredible "we're ending free movement" garbage from Maybot, as if she's cured cancer, as if in any way free movement is a bad thing.

Is that "un-lazy" enough for you?

At no point have I suggested all immigrants live off of the state, albeit there are obviously some. The vast majority of immigrants that move here are hard working honest people, but that doesn't mean our infrastructure can support them. The free movement of people is absolute bonkers

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I work full time but get child benefit, should that be banned too?
if you're moving for work you need somewhere to stay, yes? How can someone from Poland or Romania or wherever moving to be paid minimum wage pay for accommodation in say London. Only way that'll work is with more social housing. Not the fault of those on low incomes that private property prices or rental rates has increased massively more than wages.
You're living in dreamland and I'd guess a benefactor of inheritance to get to where you are in life, not self made? Am I wrong?

Fixed that for you because these people seem to manage it

 

[Mrs Wiggles]

Can't agree with that, I believe we have a duty, along with other countries, to assist people who genuinely need refuge. However if you are talking about economic migrants claiming to be refugees then that's a different matter.

Most, if not all refugees cross a dozen safe countries to get here. We don't have enough homes for the thousands of homeless people living on the street, why should we home people from other countries ?

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Nobody seems to have the answer to how are we going to fit all these people in?

When I started in my current job 10 years ago it used to take me 40 mins to drive to work, now it takes 1hr30 on a good day. We quite simply do not have the infrastructure to keep taking more people in.

 

[bluewolf]

Nobody seems to have the answer to how are we going to fit all these people in?

When I started in my current job 10 years ago it used to take me 40 mins to drive to work, now it takes 1hr30 on a good day. We quite simply do not have the infrastructure to keep taking more people in.

If only successive governments had properly invested in the infrastructure of the UK.
We're in a catch-22 situation. We can't afford to keep growing the population and we can't afford for it to stay static or shrink. Looks like we're about to hit a great big wall. The type that sees the rise of the Far Right and eventually an ideological crisis that shrinks the population. Like a War. Sound familiar?

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

If only successive governments had properly invested in the infrastructure of the UK.
We're in a catch-22 situation. We can't afford to keep growing the population and we can't afford for it to stay static or shrink. Looks like we're about to hit a great big wall. The type that sees the rise of the Far Right and eventually an ideological crisis that shrinks the population. Like a War. Sound familiar?

Oooooh I love a good war Or we could elect Trump as PM?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Totally agree - if you are able to physically work then you should do so and not be able to claim benefits.

And on your final point, remember you did move from a 3rd world country though...............!!!

But I am an out of work concert pianist - if I go digging up the road, as you are telling me that I must, my hands will be knacked and my career will be ruined

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Most, if not all refugees cross a dozen safe countries to get here. We don't have enough homes for the thousands of homeless people living on the street, why should we home people from other countries ?

One of the curses of living in a wealthy nation is that we are attractive to people from "lesser" countries.

Also, isn't there some agreement with commonwealth countries - hence why we have so many of their people?

 

[bluewolf]

Oooooh I love a good war Or we could elect Trump as PM?

Just when you think that things can't get any worse 😂

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Also, isn't there some agreement with commonwealth countries - hence why we have so many of their people?

You may wish to rephrase that James before you get accused of racism

 

[SocketRocket]

Really? You read the OP's drivel? Get rid of all migration? They live on handouts? No-one with a functioning brain believes that absolute pap. It's long since proven very few (except refugees) live off the state, and are net contributors. It's the sort of drivel that has led to this incredible "we're ending free movement" garbage from Maybot, as if she's cured cancer, as if in any way free movement is a bad thing.

Is that "un-lazy" enough for you?

You are reading into the post what you want it to be, either that or you are having problems understanding it. Zero net migration does not mean stopping all migration and the poster explained that this was something to work towards. It didnt suggest they all lived on handouts either.

Rather than adopting immature and lazy terms like Drivel or Functioning brains try the art of debating the subject. You may be taken somewhat more seriously if you did.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

What's wrong with saying we have a lot of people from Commonwealth countries in the UK?
It's true!

 

[SocketRocket]

Hey @Mrs Wiggles. Could I be so bold as to ask what current political party best suits your opinions? I'll go first as it's only polite. I'm a lifelong Labour voter but struggle currently as they don't really represent my views.
Oh, and I'm directly descended from Economic migrants who came here to escape abject poverty and raised a family who all work and contribute healthily to the coffers of this country.

It's good to hear that your ancestors were such good immigrants, are you suggesting by this we have a policy of unlimited immigration and that all immigrants would contribute healthily to the coffers?

 

[bluewolf]

It's good to hear that your ancestors were such good immigrants, are you suggesting by this we have a policy of unlimited immigration and that all immigrants would contribute healthily to the coffers?

Nope. I'm suggesting that a blanket approach to immigrants is both socially and economically irresponsible. I'm saying quite clearly that there are people on this thread who clearly think that immigration is a bad thing.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Most, if not all refugees cross a dozen safe countries to get here. We don't have enough homes for the thousands of homeless people living on the street, why should we home people from other countries ?

I wouldn't disagree with that; indeed the French attitude towards shoving them all across the Channel is another reason I voted to get out. However we are also responsible for creating or contributing towards the issues in their countries so in my book we bear some responsibility for providing a dafe haven.

 

[Mrs Wiggles]

A HUUUUUUGE problem with this is that the UK would not have sufficient people of working age to be productive members of society, pay taxes, fulfil important roles in our economy and drive our economy (and tax take) forward. Not for many decades AND not without increasing the retirement age quite a bit or aggressively means testing benefits for people of pensionable age (something that would not be morally or politically justified in most cases).

Retired people, generally, do not contribute to the tax take. And even well off ones with income at or above national average will pay in a lot less than they draw out in state pension, health care, bus passes and other benefits etc. Obviously they don't pay NI for a start, and if they are living off a carefully managed investment / pension portfolio can legitimately pay very little tax on £30,000 or so of income.

This is not a criticism of retired people and I'm not laying any blame at their feet at all, it is just simple demographics that the people who are now retired or are now retiring were generally one of 5, 6 or 7 children and the people who are of working age were 1 of 2.4 children. and this is now reducing for children born this century to being 1 of 1 or 2 children.

In short, having a net immigration of zero would actually be extremely harmful to the economy, public services and would serve no positive purpose.

Yes - those people will get old, but in 3 or 4 decades several trends will have alleviated some problems for this. One is, the people born in the population booms either side of the 2nd world war will no longer be about and there will be greater balance within the generations. The other is a trend generally of people working longer and paying taxes longer and generally living healthier lives (i.e. not smoking, drinking as much or working in physical jobs and not living lives that are as unhealthy).

Other point - and I do not live in the SE of England, but I work with people who do I appreciate the problems with regards to access to services, transport, housing etc. In my view, it is a complete failure of the government not to have done more to encourage people (not just immigrants) to live and work in the regions where there is greater capacity. The government have made several HORRENDOUS decisions with regards to this. Transport infrastructure i.e. the billions spent on London Underground, Cross Rail and now High Speed rail is a foolish waste of money that will continue to suck everything INTO London. Heathrow expansion is on a similar level. Instead improve the road and rail network that already exists around the country to encourage people and business to stay or relocate in Midlands, North, Wales, Scotland etc. Even if many / most will still retain a base in the SE.

Instead policy, politics and culture are so London centric that even UK people are economically drawn to London and London would have housing / infrastructure / service problems even without non UK people basing themselves there, meanwhile cities like Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow etc. lose thousands of their brightest and best to the London lifestyle every month.

But I am an out of work concert pianist - if I go digging up the road, as you are telling me that I must, my hands will be knacked and my career will be ruined

Try a call centre then

 

[Mrs Wiggles]

I wouldn't disagree with that; indeed the French attitude towards shoving them all across the Channel is another reason I voted to get out. However we are also responsible for creating or contributing towards the issues in their countries so in my book we bear some responsibility for providing a dafe haven.

These people are almost solely Muslim. They cross other countries with the same culture as themselves to get here. Why, because we house them and throw benefits at them.

 

[rulefan]

These people are almost solely Muslim.

So it's a religious issue?

 

[Deleted member 1418]

But I am an out of work concert pianist - if I go digging up the road, as you are telling me that I must, my hands will be knacked and my career will be ruined

If you were any good then you'd be in work surely?!!!

I know plenty of musicians who are in bands and getting decent, regular gigs that are still working in other jobs!

No place for your lazy, arty-farty people in PieMan's Britain I'm afraid!!

 

[User62651]

Fixed that for you because these people seem to manage it

By all means take the mick but don't change people's posts please, that is a forum no-no.