Immigration good or bad

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I don't know why (well, I do, really) people like the Daily Mail get so het up about immigration. The Daily Mail are the people who once wanted the UK to experience a huge acute immigration of Nazis, IIRC. Seems they are less keen on the Germans these days.

Immigration is, and has always been, a necessary and useful factor in the economy and culture of this and almost every other country. The US is built on immigration, and the UK has a rich and varied heritage for the same reason. Panic stories of masses of Eastern Europeans flooding in to pillage the UK have been shown to be completely false so far, just as fears in the US that the Irish, Chinese, Russians, Mexicans etc etc would destroy the country. All have enriched the country and improved the culture and economy. The UK has still plenty of room and the idea that the place is bursting is laughable outside a few packed areas. But those packed areas are also the places with the greatest need for the sort of labour that immigrants will provide, so that's all right then.

It is obviously sensible to measure and monitor what is going on, so the welfare, NHS and other infrastructure systems can respond, but these ideas of limiting immigration were purely to feed the appetite of ignorant xenophobes, and the Gov knew these ideas would never fly, but they put them out for political capital.

It is also good for humankind to mix their genes in a more diverse pool.


DOI: of Celtic peasant origins.
 
Well the masses from Romania etc could possibly happen when they are allowed to come to the UK.

The reason why the flooding hasn't happened is because they haven't been able to come here yet

Immigration overall isn't a bad thing - most cases are for the better but there will always be people that the Daily Mail will focus on and try to print them as the majority

IMO anyone can live and work in the country as long as they are working for the better of this country and pay their taxes and pay their way.

I'm not a very big fan of people arriving to join the benefit culture and gain free medical etc
 
Overall I would say that it is a neutral position for the country.

I agree with those that say there is an awful lot of scaremongering by some and, ironically, many of those who I are most vociferous in their complaints happily talk of themselves emigrating. Curious!!

On the other hand there may need to be some control of numbers where certain areas are receiving a disproportionate number of immigrants with the inevitable strain upon services.

However, I was born and worked in Birmingham and this like most cities has for over 50 years seen many immigrants and despite what the smart a**es may say about Brum it has not been adversely effected by the incomers.

Merry Christmas to one and all, wherever you come from!
 
Just a quick question, more a poll so to speak. Is it right and proper that a Bulgarian/Romanian is entitled to the same level of benefits that I would get if I was to become unemployed after over 40 years of paying tax and national insurance after just 12 weeks in the country and possibly paying absolutely nothing into the British benefits system? Frankly I do not, I'm sorry if it offends anyone.
 
Just a quick question, more a poll so to speak. Is it right and proper that a Bulgarian/Romanian is entitled to the same level of benefits that I would get if I was to become unemployed after over 40 years of paying tax and national insurance after just 12 weeks in the country and possibly paying absolutely nothing into the British benefits system? Frankly I do not, I'm sorry if it offends anyone.


Any benefits they get should be earned first - incremental on the time paying taxes and NI
 
It's all very well saying that immigrants come here and work, pay taxes, don't drain the system etc but that doesn't change the fundamental issue. If they weren't in the country then the British people that are too lazy to work would have to fill those jobs. Stop the benefits, make them work for a living and have them start contributing to society.

Maybe that would put the 'Great' back into Britain :thup:
 
It's all very well saying that immigrants come here and work, pay taxes, don't drain the system etc but that doesn't change the fundamental issue. If they weren't in the country then the British people that are too lazy to work would have to fill those jobs. Stop the benefits, make them work for a living and have them start contributing to society.

Maybe that would put the 'Great' back into Britain :thup:

But if you look around the world you would we have consistently one of the lowest unemployment rates on the globe and there has been no significant a my increases when new people co.e into the country. In an ideal world those that have previously contributed would not get benefits but I would not want to live in a place where significant numbers were left on the streets to beg.
 
If we stopped immigration today the country would still grow too fast due to the high birth rate which it has helped fuel.

We don't need to import doctors, nurses, engineers etc, we are quite capable of training these ourselves. Morally many of these should be working to better the countries that invested in their training.

We cant afford the infrastructure for these additional people as we are broke so lets take the blinkers off. Wait for the Roma to turn up in numbers and see how crime rates will soar next year, just wait and see.
 
I don't know why (well, I do, really) people like the Daily Mail get so het up about immigration. The Daily Mail are the people who once wanted the UK to experience a huge acute immigration of Nazis, IIRC. Seems they are less keen on the Germans these days.

Immigration is, and has always been, a necessary and useful factor in the economy and culture of this and almost every other country. The US is built on immigration, and the UK has a rich and varied heritage for the same reason. Panic stories of masses of Eastern Europeans flooding in to pillage the UK have been shown to be completely false so far, just as fears in the US that the Irish, Chinese, Russians, Mexicans etc etc would destroy the country. All have enriched the country and improved the culture and economy. The UK has still plenty of room and the idea that the place is bursting is laughable outside a few packed areas. But those packed areas are also the places with the greatest need for the sort of labour that immigrants will provide, so that's all right then.

It is obviously sensible to measure and monitor what is going on, so the welfare, NHS and other infrastructure systems can respond, but these ideas of limiting immigration were purely to feed the appetite of ignorant xenophobes, and the Gov knew these ideas would never fly, but they put them out for political capital.

It is also good for humankind to mix their genes in a more diverse pool.


DOI: of Celtic peasant origins.

There's an awful lot of generalisations there Ethan.

Daily Mail readers; it seems to be common label applied to so many people who dare criticise, but in truth... rubbish.

Immigration is necessary; why? If a Gov turned round to the feckless and said the (supposed) demeaning jobs have to be done by them or they won't get their benefits share... Its the inner cities with this greatest need you speak of, and bizarrely the greatest unemployment.

"Countries are enriched;" that sounds like "cultural diversity." Just what do we take from other cultures and what do they take from ours? Many choose to live in their own ghetto's, and run those ghetto's with their own Sharia laws(generalisation on my part)... Cultural diversity is just a political term that hides the dilution of our own culture.

"Plenty of room;" the person per square footage sounds great but quite frankly couldn't be further than the truth. There's acres of room up on the Nth Yorks Moors and the like but... There's a housing shortage where the jobs are. Class sizes are hitting 40 in many inner cities and large towns. As part of the 60's baby boom, cyclical from the 40's baby boom, I remember class sizes in the 40's. Seriously, get a grip.

"So that welfare, and the NHS and other infrastructure systems can respond;" responding after the fact in a country that is already struggling financially. Immigration if we can afford it, no problem. At present, no I don't agree.

"Ignorant xenophobe;" for having a different opinion. Maybe a bit of a stretch to take that from your post... I've lived in several countries in Europe, and also have a Fijian (adopted) sister. Believe me I know what rascism and xenophobia is, and have several scars to prove it.

I may not be a Daily Mail reader but, thankfully, I'm not a cuddly left wing yoghurt knitting Guardian reader - includes a huge big tongue in cheek smiley;)
 
immigration good or bad, well that depends:-

Good: If the people coming into the country what to commit to the system and pay their way, have jobs lined up upon arrival, can speak English or are willing to learn, those who want to help.

Bad: Those coming to the country because they see the UK as a soft touch for benefits, housing, medical care, the justice system etc... basically all the spongers who are fleeing from their own country, because of war, poverty or whatever.

My dad and his brother used to have this same argument as this thread, my dad would say "this is a stupid bloody country we live in", to which my uncle would reply "No, it's not, it's a great country, just run by stupid bloody people". Never a truer word spoken.
 
People fleeing war torn countries are "Asylum Seekers" as opposed to immigrants and need protection. That's not a bad thing
 
I should probably be classified as illegal immigrant as, indeed, should my entire family. It is rumoured that we travelled over by boat from France under cover of darkness amongst a large group of other French illegals and sneaked ashore whilst nobody was looking. Passport control was nowhere to be seen and we didn't even see a single customs official all night. I couldn't believe how easy it was to get into your country without an invitation. You people seem happy to allow just about anyone in - no questions asked. I really do think you should be more careful about who you let across your borders.

The place: Hastings

The date: 1066


The question is, should I be allowed to remain or should I be sent back to where I came from?
 
This all assumes though that the number of jobs available in our economy is finite. Which of course it is not, more people working here means more cash in the economy increasing the number of jobs available to all. This can be seen in the unemployment rate which has changed very little over recent decades (except during world wide recessions) despite the relative high level of immigration.
If you are also saying that immigration in the long term leads to an upskilling of the average worker then this has obvious economic benefits for us all.

That assumes that the increased money in the economy stays in the economy. IIRC there was something done recently on a council run call centre in Birmingham that was outsourced. Although more expensive to run in England, something like 67p in every pound stayed in the country. When outsourced, all that vanished, and it actually benefitted the economy less, despite the apparent cost saving. And I believe that a lot of the immigrants that work here do so to send the money home, where it is worth much more to the rest of the family, so that money will bring little or no benefit to the economy here.
 
I should probably be classified as illegal immigrant as, indeed, should my entire family. It is rumoured that we travelled over by boat from France under cover of darkness amongst a large group of other French illegals and sneaked ashore whilst nobody was looking. Passport control was nowhere to be seen and we didn't even see a single customs official all night. I couldn't believe how easy it was to get into your country without an invitation. You people seem happy to allow just about anyone in - no questions asked. I really do think you should be more careful about who you let across your borders.

The place: Hastings

The date: 1066


The question is, should I be allowed to remain or should I be sent back to where I came from?

You may be interested in the fact that more people have immigrated to the UK since 2000 than the whole period back from then to 1066.

Regarding your question: I would imagine your bloodline has been mixed out of all recognition since 1066 so calling your self a Norman would be a little of an exaggeration. Regarding your right to reside: Please stay, I am sure you have contributed but if you feel an urge to return to your kinsfolk, Feel Free.
 
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Many thanks to everyone who has responded to this in a civilised way, I say that coz I know how heated this topic can get. I do have a few opinions to say on said topic but al leave it a day or so as mr an Missis tash is getting a bit cuddly (she's wearing her crimbo onsie ). Merry Christmas to you all.
 
Merry Christmas one and all! To the OP, in my opinion, immigration is good for the country. Lots of excellent points above around the benefit system, but a mobile workforce competing for work is a massive driver for small business.
 
Merry Christmas one and all! To the OP, in my opinion, immigration is good for the country. Lots of excellent points above around the benefit system, but a mobile workforce competing for work is a massive driver for small business.

So you think there is a shortage of available labour for small business? Really!
 
People fleeing war torn countries are "Asylum Seekers" as opposed to immigrants and need protection. That's not a bad thing

Completely agree with you BUT (and as you can see it's a big but :)) a genuine asylum seeker should seek refuge in the first safe country that they arrive in after leaving their own country. I fully accept that we as a country should be taking our fair share of asylum seekers that arrive in the EU but this country should never be the first safe country they arrive in. Many travel through Europe and cross the channel in the back of a lorry to arrive here and claim asylum. Maybe there should be a central location (maybe Belgium as it doesn't seem to do much else) where anyone claiming to be an asylum seeker is processed and then sent on to a designated country. For example a % go to Germany, % to France, % to the UK etc.

Immigration is a totally different issue and I'm not even getting into that as I am born and living in England of Scottish and Irish decent.
 
So you think there is a shortage of available labour for small business? Really!


There is a shortage of people willing to work minimum wage to do labour work because they won't get as much as benefits
 
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