I'm Curious - Stolen Identity?

[Orikoru]

In my round on Sunday, me and another player identified that we were both playing Taylor Made 0 balls - my marking is a purple circle above the logo, he had two circles below it. Seemed simple enough, but perhaps not everyone is that observant...

Later on we had both hit into the same section of very long grass. The other player found his ball first, and marked the location with his glove while he helped to find my ball. A third player found a ball and asked if it was Taylor Made 0. I said yes, and went over to look at it, then said "that's not mine - that's John's ball!" Sure enough he had found my ball already but thought it was his. I said "lucky you didn't hit it!"

It got me wondering though. What if he had hit it? I'd have never found my ball, and as it was a Bogey comp I'd have just marked down a minus 1 for the hole and moved on. If he realised it wasn't his ball when he got onto the green and marked it, presumably I could then take my ball right back to the spot where it was originally found and replace it (or drop it?) there and continue the hole?

What if he didn't realise until later on. Say we're on the tee box of the next hole and then he realises. Can I go back to the previous hole again then? And I'm sure the line has to be drawn somewhere - I'm guessing as soon as I tee off that next hole I now can't go back and finish an earlier hole? Even though it would have been another bloke's cock up and as far as I knew I'd simply lost the ball?

 

[Foxholer]

My view is that as you hadn't found & identified your ball within the allotted time, your ball was/is lost. That fact that your PP had found it and mistakenly played it as his is irrelevant as far as you/your ball are concerned. Of course, there would have been penalties wrt to his action too.
I believe the mismatch would only last for the current hole. Once a new hole begins - even with the balls swapped - the tee-ed balls of each player become 'their' balls.

 

[rulie]

My view is that as you hadn't found & identified your ball within the allotted time, your ball was/is lost. That fact that your PP had found it and mistakenly played it as his is beside the point as far as you/your ball are concerned. Of course, there would have been penalties wrt to his action too.
I believe the mismatch would only last for the current hole. Once a new hole begins - even with the balls swapped - the tee-ed balls of each player become 'their' balls.

You are correct. The player is entitled to search for his or her ball for three minutes, if not found within those three minutes, it is lost - even if it had been played by another player. The only exception is that if the player discovers, with KVC, that his ball had been played by another player within those three minutes, he may substitute another ball at the original ball's spot.

 

[Steven Rules]

I'm getting a strong sense of deja vu here. The essence of this topic was pretty extensively covered in the 'Back to the tee or otherwise!' thread of a few weeks ago.

 

[chrisd]

I'm getting a strong sense of deja vu here. The essence of this topic was pretty extensively covered in the 'Back to the tee or otherwise!' thread of a few weeks ago.

Exactly what I thought.

 

[Crow]

You are correct. The player is entitled to search for his or her ball for three minutes, if not found within those three minutes, it is lost - even if it had been played by another player. The only exception is that if the player discovers, with KVC, that his ball had been played by another player within those three minutes, he may substitute another ball at the original ball's spot.

What if Kevin Van-Clyne isn't playing with him that day?

 

[Voyager EMH]

What if Kevin Van-Clyne isn't playing with him that day?

I've never heard of him.

Perhaps its got something to do with this...

 

[Orikoru]

You are correct. The player is entitled to search for his or her ball for three minutes, if not found within those three minutes, it is lost - even if it had been played by another player. The only exception is that if the player discovers, with KVC, that his ball had been played by another player within those three minutes, he may substitute another ball at the original ball's spot.

So all that can take place before you tee off the next hole, right? If the guy who nicked my ball puts it on the next tee, realises it's my ball and he made a mistake - I can then walk back to the previous hole and finish it from the correct spot? Assuming he found and played my ball before my 3 minutes was up (which he did/would have done).

 

[Steven Rules]

So all that can take place before you tee off the next hole, right? If the guy who nicked my ball puts it on the next tee, realises it's my ball and he made a mistake - I can then walk back to the previous hole and finish it from the correct spot? Assuming he found and played my ball before my 3 minutes was up (which he did/would have done).

No. You have to find and identify your ball within three minutes of starting to search for it. Otherwise it is lost.

 

[Orikoru]

No. You have to find and identify your ball within three minutes of starting to search for it. Otherwise it is lost.

Sorry, that can't be right. If I'm searching for a ball that someone else has already hit then I'm obviously not going to find it and it's not my fault in any way shape or form. I can't be punished for that.

Rulie posted an exception that says if I find out my player hit my ball within the three minutes then I can replace my ball in that spot.

 

[Bdill93]

Sorry, that can't be right. If I'm searching for a ball that someone else has already hit then I'm obviously not going to find it and it's not my fault in any way shape or form. I can't be punished for that.

Rulie posted an exception that says if I find out my player hit my ball within the three minutes then I can replace my ball in that spot.

But if you identified his ball within the 3 min search - and he's hit a ball already, you know he's hit your ball no?

 

[Orikoru]

But if you identified his ball within the 3 min search - and he's hit a ball already, you know he's hit your ball no?

You wouldn't know that until you went and got the ball and looked at it, but yeah. Both balls were found within the 3 minutes (as I say it was just luck he hadn't actually hit mine, just marked it's location.)

 

[rulefan]

But if you identified his ball within the 3 min search - and he's hit a ball already, you know he's hit your ball no?

How do you know what ball he hit? It could be a stray.

 

[Steven Rules]

Sorry, that can't be right. If I'm searching for a ball that someone else has already hit then I'm obviously not going to find it and it's not my fault in any way shape or form. I can't be punished for that.

Rulie posted an exception that says if I find out my player hit my ball within the three minutes then I can replace my ball in that spot.

It is absolutely right.

At the risk of me getting all grammatical, in order to remove any ambiguity, let me reword your paraphrasing of Rulie's synopsis so we are clear on which clauses are modifying which verbs.

"if I find out within the three minutes - with known or virtual certainty - my player hit my ball then I can replace my ball in that spot."

The three minutes relates to when you identify your ball, not to when the other player played a ball.

Otherwise - as you have correctly identified - you have been dealt a cruel blow not of your making. But that is the rule.

 

[Orikoru]

It is absolutely right.

At the risk of me getting all grammatical, in order to remove any ambiguity, let me reword your paraphrasing of Rulie's synopsis so we are clear on which clauses are modifying which verbs.

"if I find out within the three minutes - with known or virtual certainty - my player hit my ball then I can replace my ball in that spot."

The three minutes relates to when you identify your ball, not to when the other player played a ball.

Otherwise - as you have correctly identified - you have been dealt a cruel blow not of your making. But that is the rule.

What if he's just smashed it 150 yards, that wouldn't be possible would it?

I just can't accept that somebody else can go and hit your ball, preventing you from finding it, and you get punished for it. It makes absolutely no sense at all. You should be able to right that wrong. If that is the rule it's a bloody joke.

 

[Steven Rules]

I just can't accept that somebody else can go and hit your ball, preventing you from finding it, and you get punished for it. It makes absolutely no sense at all. You should be able to right that wrong. If that is the rule it's a bloody joke.

It is the rule and it is harsh. But it is the rule.

If you haven't already done so, I encourage you to read through the 'Back to the tee or otherwise!' thread of a few weeks ago that I alluded to earlier.

Within that thread, Colin L offered the following words of wisdom:

"It is indeed hard on [the player], just as losing your ball under autumn leaves, having it nicked by a kid from the neighbouring estate, not knowing that it ricocheted off a tree (as happened to me with a ball sliced into the trees which ended up in the middle of the fairway where, of course, I hadn't even looked) and so on. I have also lost a ball that must have been in plain view, the only problem being that I couldn't find it amongst the dozens of balls littering the practice ground which of necessity is on the course. Each of us probably has a hard luck story about a lost ball."

 

[Colin L]

It's a hard one to bear, no doubt, and could end beautiful friendships but it keeps the ball lost rule clear and simple.

 

[Orikoru]

It is the rule and it is harsh. But it is the rule.

If you haven't already done so, I encourage you to read through the 'Back to the tee or otherwise!' thread of a few weeks ago that I alluded to earlier.

Within that thread, Colin L offered the following words of wisdom:

"It is indeed hard on [the player], just as losing your ball under autumn leaves, having it nicked by a kid from the neighbouring estate, not knowing that it ricocheted off a tree (as happened to me with a ball sliced into the trees which ended up in the middle of the fairway where, of course, I hadn't even looked) and so on. I have also lost a ball that must have been in plain view, the only problem being that I couldn't find it amongst the dozens of balls littering the practice ground which of necessity is on the course. Each of us probably has a hard luck story about a lost ball."

Most of those examples are simple bad luck rather than the direct result of another player's stupidity.

 

[Crow]

Most of those examples are simple bad luck rather than the direct result of another player's stupidity.

Maybe take a look at your own stupidity in relying on your playing partner's ability to ID the ball rather than making sure yourself.

One to remember for next time.

 

[Orikoru]

Maybe take a look at your own stupidity in relying on your playing partner's ability to ID the ball rather than making sure yourself.

One to remember for next time.

Seriously? If someone says they've found their ball my instinct isn't to think they're an idiot who's probably misidentified it. I'm not that suspicious!