Identifying A Ball When I’d rather not

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I dont see why you would be so black and white about looking. If I were in a medal round mostly I wouldn't look, if asked not to, as the player is probably going to score fairly high on the hole even if using his provisional. In a matchplay I'd quite possibly want to find his ball, especially if it's in heavy clag and way off line and even more especially if his provisional is sitting nicely, middle of the fairway, with a clear possibility of putting it close to the pin.

It's a match and I'd not want to lose it by being Mr Nice Guy (unless I was winning easily)

Ok…my question though is more that…under the rules if I spot a ball where an opponents might be, even if I am not actually looking for it and even if I have been asked to not look, MUST I inform him.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Ok…my question though is more that…under the rules if I spot a ball where an opponents might be, even if I am not actually looking for it and even if I have been asked to not look, MUST I inform him.

Sure this has been covered already.

 

[chrisd]

Ok…my question though is more that…under the rules if I spot a ball where an opponents might be, even if I am not actually looking for it and even if I have been asked to not look, MUST I inform him.

I wasn't answering your question, i was asking you a question

 

[salfordlad]

Ok…my question though is more that…under the rules if I spot a ball where an opponents might be, even if I am not actually looking for it and even if I have been asked to not look, MUST I inform him.

I think this is a good question that is not explicitly answered in the Official Guide. While it is very clear a player cannot ignore a found ball that may be theirs, there is no equivalent stated requirement for another player (or opponent) to shout out that they have found a ball that may be the current ball in play for another person.

However, my thinking is you only meet 1.2a's "all players are expected to play in the spirit of the game" (acting with integrity, being honest in all aspects of play etc) by acknowledging that you have seen a ball that may be the ball in play of another player or an opponent, regardless of whether you were actively searching or whether you had been asked not to look. But there is no penalty for a breach of 1.2a unless it is taken to the Committee and they consider it significant enough to call Serious Misconduct (DQ). Other than in exceptional circumstances, I can't see this action qualifying as Serious Misconduct.

 

[rulie]

I think this is a good question that is not explicitly answered in the Official Guide. While it is very clear a player cannot ignore a found ball that may be theirs, there is no equivalent stated requirement for another player (or opponent) to shout out that they have found a ball that may be the current ball in play for another person.

However, my thinking is you only meet 1.2a's "all players are expected to play in the spirit of the game" (acting with integrity, being honest in all aspects of play etc) by acknowledging that you have seen a ball that may be the ball in play of another player or an opponent, regardless of whether you were actively searching or whether you had been asked not to look. But there is no penalty for a breach of 1.2a unless it is taken to the Committee and they consider it significant enough to call Serious Misconduct (DQ). Other than in exceptional circumstances, I can't see this action qualifying as Serious Misconduct.

The question mentioned "opponent", signifying match play. As you know, Rule 3.2d(4) says that in match play, a player may act on a breach by his opponent, or choose to ignore it. Thus, in match play, I would suggest that there is no obligation for the player to tell his opponent about a ball that he sees (but the player could do so).

 

[salfordlad]

The question mentioned "opponent", signifying match play. As you know, Rule 3.2d(4) says that in match play, a player may act on a breach by his opponent, or choose to ignore it. Thus, in match play, I would suggest that there is no obligation for the player to tell his opponent about a ball that he sees (but the player could do so).

I'm not sure 3.2d(4) has any relevance to this situation because there is no opponent breach. What if you are searching for your opponent's ball and you find a ball - do you think you are free to not tell the opponent if you find a ball? Is that delivering the integrity and honesty elements of 1.2a? So, absent any RB input at this stage, I'm thinking it makes no difference whether you are in search or not, or whether it is stroke play or match play, there is an obligation to speak up. An interesting issue.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It was in a medal…one of my fellow competitors had topped his tee shot into the rubbish and asked that I not look for it. His provisional was down the middle. As I walked down the path from the tee trying to not look, I spotted a ball out of the corner of my eye in the general area his ball was likely to be. My thinking was that I had a responsibility to the others in the medal field to call out that I’d spotted a ball. I apologised…of course…but felt I had no option. He tripled the hole.

 

[rosecott]

It was in a medal…one of my fellow competitors had topped his tee shot into the rubbish and asked that I not look for it. His provisional was down the middle. As I walked down the path from the tee trying to not look, I spotted a ball out of the corner of my eye in the general area his ball was likely to be. My thinking was that I had a responsibility to the others in the medal field to call out that I’d spotted a ball. I apologised…of course…but felt I had no option. He tripled the hole.

Did he ask you not to look for it before hitting another ball? If before, why call a provisional if he didn't want you to look?

 

[backwoodsman]

Did he ask you not to look for it before hitting another ball? If before, why call a provisional if he didn't want you to look?

Because a good provisional sometimes has a hìgher probability of success than an original in the cabbage. But you don't know the provisional is "good" until after you've hit it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Did he ask you not to look for it before hitting another ball? If before, why call a provisional if he didn't want you to look?

He hit a good provisional then asked me not to look for his original...it was in a real doggie doo doo place - if it was found he knew he'd have to go back to the tee...though that was only 20yds back...and he would be guessing that he couldn't play a better tee shot than his provisional.

But as I walked off the tee and down the path I spotted a ball in my peripheral vision - I wasn't looking for a ball but I couldn't unsee what I'd just spotted, however unintentionally.

 

[rulefan]

He hit a good provisional then asked me not to look for his original...it was in a real doggie doo doo place - if it was found he knew he'd have to go back to the tee...though that was only 20yds back...and he would be guessing that he couldn't play a better tee shot than his provisional.

But as I walked off the tee and down the path I spotted a ball in my peripheral vision - I wasn't looking for a ball but I couldn't unsee what I'd just spotted, however unintentionally.

There is no Rule that obliges a player to inform another that they have seen an otherwise unidentified ball unless it may be the player's own ball.

 

[Baldy Bouncer]

It was in a medal…one of my fellow competitors had topped his tee shot into the rubbish and asked that I not look for it. His provisional was down the middle. As I walked down the path from the tee trying to not look, I spotted a ball out of the corner of my eye in the general area his ball was likely to be. My thinking was that I had a responsibility to the others in the medal field to call out that I’d spotted a ball. I apologised…of course…but felt I had no option. He tripled the hole.

Wow, I bet you're a bundle of fun to play with.

 

[salfordlad]

There is no Rule that obliges a player to inform another that they have seen an otherwise unidentified ball unless it may be the player's own ball.

There's just a rule that talks extensively about honesty and integrity and no RB guidance on how this tension would resolve on the course in this practical case. So it's an interesting question.

 

[hovis]

This caused a major row at my old club. Two golfers shooting out for the club champs and one hits his ball into a dead area then hit provisional down the middle. He tells playing partner not to look for it and he looks anyway and finds it instantly (in a terrible spot). Golfer decides its unplayable and goes back to the tee. He hooks it oob handing the other golfer the tournament.

 

[Swango1980]

This caused a major row at my old club. Two golfers shooting out for the club champs and one hits his ball into a dead area then hit provisional down the middle. He tells playing partner not to look for it and he looks anyway and finds it instantly (in a terrible spot). Golfer decides its unplayable and goes back to the tee. He hooks it oob handing the other golfer the tournament.

For the golfer that lost out, he should probably be more angry at hitting his ball into the dead area to begin with, and then hitting his stroke and distance ball out of bounds. But, if he wants to blame others for his inadequacies, so be it. Doesn't reflect well on him though.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Wow, I bet you're a bundle of fun to play with.

I just did what I thought I should do - either under the rules or in a duty of care to the rest of the field, I didn’t know.

I now know that there is no requirement in the rules for me to have pointed out the ball. But I am still not sure on the etiquette and d.o.c front. I spot a ball where a fellow players ball is likely to be, so I have found a ball, I can’t unfind it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This caused a major row at my old club. Two golfers shooting out for the club champs and one hits his ball into a dead area then hit provisional down the middle. He tells playing partner not to look for it and he looks anyway and finds it instantly (in a terrible spot). Golfer decides its unplayable and goes back to the tee. He hooks it oob handing the other golfer the tournament.

Well…in a match that’s just how it is I guess. In my situation I was asked to not look for his ball, and I didn’t look, but still spotted a ball.?