Identifying A Ball When I’d rather not

[Swango1980]

Working on the basis it is your ball before you rake it out you stick your driver in the Bush and get your 2 club lengths and mark that point.

If that option not available you work on the straight line position and mark that before moving your ball to identify it.

Huge gorse bushes are best delt with by the simple act of just taking the stroke and distance option as soon as you hit it in there...

True, that would be if the person does that to mark ball. But, on the assumption that they don't? I'll be honest, I am sure I've seen plenty of occasions in which a player has dragged a ball out of a bush without using another club to mark the ball beforehand. So, should they technically be given a further penalty above the unplayable penalty they are bound to take?

 

[Backache]

I think you have answered your own question, no one seriously expects you to crawl into the middle of a large clump of gorse to identify your ball.

I kind of agree but there is always a continuum between the virtually impossible to get to and the mildly uncomfortable with all points in-between and am wondering where the cut off is reasonable.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

True, that would be if the person does that to mark ball. But, on the assumption that they don't? I'll be honest, I am sure I've seen plenty of occasions in which a player has dragged a ball out of a bush without using another club to mark the ball beforehand. So, should they technically be given a further penalty above the unplayable penalty they are bound to take?

Dunno, try and make sure that's what I do and anyone I'm playing with in that scenario.

What the rest of the field does is up to them, as we know most have little idea of the basics. Not very practical to send a rules official out with every group...

 

[salfordlad]

Your scenario got me thinking though.

Imagine you see a ball under a bush. No way for you to identify it from where it lies. But, you can stretch your club right underneath and scoop the ball out. When you do, and it rolls out, it is your ball. What happens next?

The instinct is you have identified your ball, and you will play under the unplayable ball rule. I suspect most golfers would do this?

However, the rules state that, if you need to move your ball to identify it, it must be marked first. This was not possible in this case, however the rules simply say the player gets a one shot penalty for failing to mark the ball.

So, what is technically the correct process once a player drags their ball out of a bush to identify it?

This is dealt with in 9.4a/1, a long interpretation I will not repeat here. Short answer in your scenario where a player cannot play the ball as lies is the player should make it clear that, if it is your ball, you will take unplayable relief. You are then free to move that ball in any way without needing to mark and without penalty for moving your ball in play (if it proves to be yours), just the one stroke penalty for unplayable. This can also apply for a ball in a tree, say you will take unplayable and then shake the xxxx out of the tree.

 

[Swango1980]

This is dealt with in 9.4a/1, a long interpretation I will not repeat here. Short answer in your scenario where a player cannot play the ball as lies is the player should make it clear that, if it is your ball, you will take unplayable relief. You are then free to move that ball in any way without needing to mark and without penalty for moving your ball in play (if it proves to be yours), just the one stroke penalty for unplayable. This can also apply for a ball in a tree, say you will take unplayable and then shake the xxxx out of the tree.

Cheers

 

[Crazyface]

Thanks Dick but I don’t think I made my question clear enough.

I’m talking about people helping me. I want to look and am grateful for the help.

This is a scenario: I hit into bushes, let’s say off the tee for example. I play a provisional up the middle. Me and others search for original. I only look in places where I think I can improve on my my provisional, be it with 2 shots or a drop and a shot.

So I want to search. And I’m grateful of any help. But if I’m unfortunate enough to spot a ball out the corner of my eye in an awful spot I’m obliged to identify (am I?) and if mine, it becomes the ball in play which could be worse than taking the provisional in the first place. And I prefer not to walk back and play another. Tough luck on me. Walk back or hack my way out like Kevin Na that time.

But what if someone else spots a ball in that awful spot and tells me they’ve found a ball - not to be mean/competitive but trying to help - am I obliged to identify it?

Or can I say ignore it and continue searching in more favourable spots until my search time expires and am forced to play the provisional?

Ahhh,so you want your cake and eat it!

 

[Backache]

Huge gorse bushes are best delt with by the simple act of just taking the stroke and distance option as soon as you hit it in there...

Maybe it's my age and eyes but an awful lot of the gorse bushes on our course it's not all that clear whether or not you will actually be in it from the tee.

 

[Troymcclure]

Ahhh,so you want your cake and eat it!

Idiot

 

[Crazyface]

Same thing effectively applies....you can have a brief search in an area that might give you a favourable result if the ball is found, and equally you can choose not to search in the deep mire if you don't want to find it in there. You can tell your fellow players not to search for it. But if they, thinking they are helping, do find a ball in the deep mire then yes....you are obliged to identify it.

Are you? This is a really good question by the way.

 

[Imurg]

Are you? This is a really good question by the way.

Yes you are.......

 

[Crazyface]

Idiot

Oops I've already replied. It's a shame you think my reply requires you to think that of me. I can assure you I'm not an idiot.

 

[Crazyface]

Yes you are.......

Well I didn't know that!

 

[Imurg]

I'm surprised anyone with even the faintest knowledge of the rules doesn't know that.
If there's a search going on and someone says "here's a ball" why do you think you can just ignore it..?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm surprised anyone with even the faintest knowledge of the rules doesn't know that.
If there's a search going on and someone says "here's a ball" why do you think you can just ignore it..?

Devils advocate … ‘because I am certain that my ball is in this area and is not over there…so I am not interested in anything over there’.

 

[doublebogey7]

Devils advocate … ‘because I am certain that my ball is in this area and is not over there…so I am not interested in anything over there’.

If you were certain it was not our ball then why would you not do as the rules require.

 

[rulefan]

Devils advocate … ‘because I am certain that my ball is in this area and is not over there…so I am not interested in anything over there’.

18.3c(2)/2

If a ball is found, the player must make all reasonable efforts to identify the ball, provided he or she has not already played the provisional ball from nearer the hole than where the original ball was estimated to be, in which case it became the player’s ball in play. If the provisional ball has not yet become the ball in play when another ball is found, refusal to make a reasonable effort to identify the found ball may be considered serious misconduct contrary to the spirit of the game (Rule 1.2a).

After the other ball is found, if the provisional ball is played from nearer the hole than where the other ball was found, and it turns out that the other ball was the player’s original ball, the stroke at the provisional ball was actually a stroke at a wrong ball (Rule 6.3c). The player will get the general penalty and, in stroke play, must correct the error by continuing play with the original ball.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If you were certain it was not our ball then why would you not do as the rules require.

Because I know that it can’t be my ball because i know that my ball is in this area and so nothing from over there is of interest to me. Almost as if I insist that as far as I am concerned it is ‘Known or is Virtually Certain’ that my ball is here and so cannot be over there.

(I note I do not believe the above stands scrutiny - and that @rulefan has explained what I actually know…but I was just taking the stance of the bloody-minded golfer who insists…)

 

[Foxholer]

Ahhh,so you want your cake and eat it!

If I can continue the bad metaphor...except 'the cake' has fallen on the floor!

 

[Foxholer]

Devils advocate … ‘because I am certain that my ball is in this area and is not over there…so I am not interested in anything over there’.

With search time now significantly limited, that makes sense. But calling the type and number (and marking?) would not use more than a couple of seconds. If they match, then I'd consider that your 'certainty' has been challenged and you are oblige to check - or get FC/Opponent to mark and bring ball to you nto check, while you continue your own search.

 

[rulefan]

With search time now significantly limited, that makes sense. But calling the type and number (and marking?) would not use more than a couple of seconds. If they match, then I'd consider that your 'certainty' has been challenged and you are oblige to check - or get FC/Opponent to mark and bring ball to you nto check, while you continue your own search.

Regardless of the player's certainty he must identify the found ball, be that by calling information or otherwise.