Foxholer
Blackballed
Agreed. Calling the details would mean no time was 'wasted' should it not match his though.
Identifying A Ball When I’d rather not
- Thread starter Troymcclure
- Start date
nickjdavis
Head Pro
For those who have gone to look up Rule 18.3c(2)/2....you will not find it in the book. The reference quoted by Rulefan is part of the "interpretations" contained in the Official Guide to the Rules of Golf.
However...in the small rules book that we all carry...you will find the Rule 18.2a says that you must attempt to identify your ball.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Good. I now know what to tell any player I might come across trying it on so…?
DickInShorts
Newbie
Talking if being certain (or vc) where your ball went 8 played a tee shot last week into a low sun and my PP said it had gone right ( which I had also thought likely). We spent at least 3 minutes searching to no avail so Having waved the group behind through I walked back and played 3 off the tee.
When I got to my ball ( middle of the fairway) the group we’d let through were looking for one of their tee shots and found my original ball - in the trees left of the fairway!
We concluded it must have hit a tree in the right and rebounded across the fairway.
Your ball does not always end up where you thought it should be!
When I got to my ball ( middle of the fairway) the group we’d let through were looking for one of their tee shots and found my original ball - in the trees left of the fairway!
We concluded it must have hit a tree in the right and rebounded across the fairway.
Your ball does not always end up where you thought it should be!
Swango1980
Well-known member
Virtually the exact same thing happened to my group last week. All except going back and playing 3 off the tee. We let the group behind through as we looked in trees left of fairway (we were certain it went in there, as we saw it take off), but as the group behind came past, they spotted his ball on the right-hand side of the fairway. So, it clearly hit a tree and ended up miles away from where we thought it would be.
At end of the day, why would anyone ever refuse to identify a ball just because they say it is in a position they do not expect to find it? As said, even if you are convinced it is not your ball, the fact someone has found a ball and thinks there is even a small chance it could be the correct ball, then the player might as well (must) identify it, even to rule it out.
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
I'm puzzled why one would consider refusing to identify a ball just because one is "certain" its somewhere else? After all, it could still actually be yours no matter how certain you were.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
The fact that you're looking for it and, therefore, don't know where it is makes it a bit of a giveaway doesn't it....
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
???The fact that you're looking for it and, therefore, don't know where it is makes it a bit of a giveaway doesn't it....
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Usual reason. You might have hit superb provisional. If your original was in light rough just off the fairway you'd want to find it, but it if it is the area of deep doggy not that far away with really problematic recovery then you wouldn't. And so you might 'try it on' with the 'I'm certain its in here and not over there' nonsense.
Though that's a non-starter by the rules, there are some 'know-it-alls' out there who either don't - or do, but very naughtily try and pull the wool over your eyes.
Rather than all this try it on crap, if you don't want to find the original, simply go and play the provisional and make it the ball in play. Golf is slow enough without wasting time looking in the wrong place deliberately.
rulefan
Tour Winner
But if some else decides to look for it the last para of post #56 may kick in.
Am I not right in thinking though that if you go to your provisional and play it then its null and void. Surely the answer is to make a beeline to the provisional and smack it pronto. If it's gone into the rubbish described then it usually takes a few minutes to get to the scene and the ball (or any) aren't usually visible straight away. I'd be clipping the provisional forward. and waving
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Normally when someone is looking miles away from where you think your ball is they are not really looking for YOUR ball.
They are just egging.
They are just egging.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Or the player might not have hit a provisional and wants to be able to take stroke and distance, rather than risk idenfying his ball in a rubbish place.
whatever…there is no scope in the rules for him not identifying a ball found in an area that he claims his ball would not, could not, be in. He has to identify it. Of course even if it is his he might lie and claim it’s not. But that’s another matter!
Swango1980
Well-known member
Yeah, you could do that, unless:
1. The provisional is further from hole (can still hit it, but doesn't make your original lost)
2. The group in front are clear
3. It is Match Play and your provisional is closer to hole than opponent.
4. Your original was already potentially spotted by someone on course long before you could play next with provy, and they let you know.
However, in reality, I can't see it being a major issue. If you don't want to find your ball, don't look and tell the others in your group. More often than not, they'll not bother looking. If you start to look, then there is always a chance it'll be found in a nasty spot, even after you call off the search, as someone might spot it as they walk away. If so, you've no choice but to identify it. I think that is all this is really about. The fact that a player can't just refuse to identify a ball that could be theirs, unless it is already officially "lost" as defined by the rules.
rulie
Head Pro
And the Rules define "lost" very simply - not found within three minutes of searching.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Remember though that even if its found the player can still take the stoke & distance option (unplayable) Finding it in a 'rubbish place' doesn't remove that option
rulie
Head Pro
Yes, once the original is found, the provisional must be abandoned, but the player still has the stroke and distance option under unplayable. He must return to the previous spot and play again from there (ie, he cannot continue play with the provisional ball played in case his original might be lost.)
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Of course…brain fade on my part…
If I think or know a player‘s ball is in a rubbish place then I always ask if he wants me to help look for it. If the answer is No then I don’t look. Likewise if player asks me to help look but tells me to not look in the horrid stuff then I don’t look in the horrid stuff.
But sometimes the unfortunate can happen.
A player topped his tee shot from a high teeing ground. The ball ploughed into the deep rough and bushes on the steep slope down. He played an excellent provisional (he should have put it in play as a new ball in play, but didn’t). He told me to not look for the original.
But as I walked down the path down from the tee I spotted a ball deep in the bushes in my peripheral vision even though, as requested, I wasn’t actually looking and I felt that I had to tell him. He wasn’t happy; he checked the ball; it was his; he was even less happy.
Do the rules tell me that I must tell player of that ball.
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chrisd
Major Champion
I dont see why you would be so black and white about looking. If I were in a medal round mostly I wouldn't look, if asked not to, as the player is probably going to score fairly high on the hole even if using his provisional. In a matchplay I'd quite possibly want to find his ball, especially if it's in heavy clag and way off line and even more especially if his provisional is sitting nicely, middle of the fairway, with a clear possibility of putting it close to the pin.
It's a match and I'd not want to lose it by being Mr Nice Guy (unless I was winning easily)
