Ice in Bunkers !!

[AmandaJR]

An interesting dilemma and one I've not encountered before. Ball pulled into the bunker and got there to find it full of water and my ball right in the middle of the "lake". It had somehow got under the thick ice though and it took some hefty smacks with the rake to break through and then a challenge to get it close enough so I could retrieve it. All good fun but what if it had been a competition? What would the rules have been if say it was stuck fast - could I have replaced the ball?? Would it have been illegal to use the rake in the bunker to retrieve it - improving my lie etc etc ?? There was just enough frozen sand to drop on but again if the whole bunker was ice and I had to drop outside would that have incurred a penalty?

Nice to know, but tip to oneself - avoid bunkers in winter :fore:

 

[Andy]

You are way too keen Amanda

 

[Steve In Spain]

Logic dictates here.....trouble is, I have no idea what is the logical solution, except as you say, stay out of the sand.

 

[bladeplayer]

Be a casual water ruling id say Amanda, all be it frozen water , free drop in the bunker , id say the fact you were breaking ice it wouldnt be testing sand , i would also say there would be no problem changing the ball if you were in a comp , wheres Mashie and Roescott when you need them ha..

 

[Steve In Spain]

I reckon this covers it actually:

25-1 - Abnormal Ground Conditions.

(ii) In a Bunker: If the ball is in a bunker, the player must lift the ball and drop it either:
(a) Without penalty, in accordance with Clause (i) above, except that the nearest point of relief must be in the bunker and the ball must be dropped in the bunker or, if complete relief is impossible, as near as possible to the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole, on a part of the course in the bunker that affords maximum available relief from the condition; or
(b) Under penalty of one stroke, outside the bunker keeping the point where the ball lay directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the bunker the ball may be dropped.

 

[Tommo21]

An interesting dilemma and one I've not encountered before. Ball pulled into the bunker and got there to find it full of water and my ball right in the middle of the "lake". It had somehow got under the thick ice though and it took some hefty smacks with the rake to break through and then a challenge to get it close enough so I could retrieve it. All good fun but what if it had been a competition? What would the rules have been if say it was stuck fast - could I have replaced the ball?? Would it have been illegal to use the rake in the bunker to retrieve it - improving my lie etc etc ?? There was just enough frozen sand to drop on but again if the whole bunker was ice and I had to drop outside would that have incurred a penalty?

Nice to know, but tip to oneself - avoid bunkers in winter :fore:

In a comp you would be under a penalty if you need to drop it outside. Just cant see a comp running in such conditions without some local rule as it would be a non counter anyway. Winter tees, grees and such like.

 

[AmandaJR]

In a comp you would be under a penalty if you need to drop it outside. Just cant see a comp running in such conditions without some local rule as it would be a non counter anyway. Winter tees, grees and such like.

We're still on tees and regular greens so don't think there's a local rule and I guess drop inside the bunker without penalty or outside it with would be the course of action. The state our bunkers are kept in they are always best avoided at all costs and now I know even more so when it's frozen !

Andy - way too keen has been said before but think I'm still in the first flush of loving this game

 

[mc73]

Chances are if conditions were is bad it would be roped off and marked GUR for competition

 

[MashieNiblick]

Nothing much to add to the above but just to confirm that if your ball is in casual water (which includes ice but not frost) and isn't immediately recoverable or it would take unreasonable effort to retrieve it you may substitute another ball when taking relief - see Rule 25-1(b) Note 2 and Decision 25-1/1 Ball in Casual Water Difficult to Retrieve.

Touching casual water in a bunker with your club, touching the sand with a rake, or touching the sand with a club in the act of retrieving a ball under a Rule, are not in themsleves penalties provided that you don't do anything that could be considered as improving your lie or testing the condition of the hazard - see Rule 13-4 - Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions - Exceptions, and Decisions 13-4/7 Touching Casual Water in Bunker with Club and 13-4/21 Rake Thrown into Bunker Before Stroke.

So in respect of using the rake to retrieve the ball, as you are taking relief you won't be improving your lie and I would also argue that you aren't testing the hazard simply by doing this.

Our bunkers were like concrete today and playing out of them onto a rock hard green was very funny. Not a shot that Luke has to play that often I'll bet.

If you are interested in arcane Decisions on the Rules you can look them up on the R&A site here.

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/

Just click on a rule and all the relevant decisions come up on the right hand side. There's not much you can think of that hasn't come up and a quite a few things that you wouldn't think of that have.

 

[AmandaJR]

Thanks - very useful. I like to know the rules and whilst it's impossible to remember them all (for which I carry a pocket sized book in my bag!) I know that if I check them relative to an actual event on the course then I'm more likely to be able to recall them should I ever need to.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Whats a lady of your talent doing in a bunker in the first place?

 

[AmandaJR]

Whats a lady of your talent doing in a bunker in the first place?

Well...it's the 5th (par 3) and for ages I've avoided pulling my tee shot left and must have got cocky !!

Lady and Talent in the same sentence - you charmer you :cheers:

 

[Andy]

Lady and Talent in the same sentence - you charmer you :cheers:

He'll be asking you to play in the mixed soon lol

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Well...it's the 5th (par 3) and for ages I've avoided pulling my tee shot left and must have got cocky !!

Lady and Talent in the same sentence - you charmer you :cheers:

He'll be asking you to play in the mixed soon lol

Not sure Mr AmandaJR will be too keen on that idea although I am sharing recipies with her!

 

[AmandaJR]

Not sure Mr AmandaJR will be too keen on that idea although I am sharing recipies with her!

Cake being "produced" for xmas golf - hopefully !!

Shame we don't have enough female forumites for a mixed competition as that would be a good laugh :fore: