How would you make golf courses tougher?

[Foxholer]

Certainly agree with making bunkers proper hazards - though only a half shot penalty. So fairway ones should be deep and I liked Nicklaus's approach of raking them to make grooves. Pros would sooner be in grenside bunker than rough, so lies need to be toughened.

Like that idea of grass bunkers. My course effectively did that - took out a sand bunker because of drainage problems but left basic shape there and grass really thick - and that really is a hazard. The easier maintenance might have been the real reason a Greenkeeper suggested it though!

Narrow fairways and deeper cut rough in the landing areas (and around the green) is also fine FOR TOUR EVENTS/COURSES.

Not all that keen on ridiculously difficult pin positions. Masters seems to be the limit of what greens can be and the policy there is to make it essential to be in the correct area of the green for the first putt.

Don't think balls are very far off the limit these days (could be wrong) and the limits on Drivers certainly helped. I actually think the huge technology (and materials) driven changes, of late 80s to recently, has pretty much run its course - until the next quantum leap! - and player fitness has max-ed too so no massive further changes need to be done. Let's just admire the skills of the real players while we hack about!

 

[Deleted member 1147]

More and deeper fairway bunkers at driving distance.

Mow the fairways toward the tee so's to reduce role on drives.

More deep rough very close to the green to make chipping tougher.

Smaller greens.


But the main thing I'd like to change is in the rules:

When pro's are off target they often get free drops because of hospitality tents etc. We don't get that at our courses so we have to play from all sorts of crap.

So they should make the dropping zones further away and in deep rough.
(I always used to think at Wentworth it seemed daft for pro's not to go for the green in two as if they were off course they just got a free drop in a nicely mow patch of semi)

 

[JustOne]

Make them play off mats where they can't push a tee peg down into properly.
Have 500 tons of wormcasts delivered the day before the event and spread them evenly around the course, but also make sure there are plenty around the fringe of the greens.
Allow 3,000 amateur golfers to continually circle the greens churning up the mud so that the pro's have to try chipping off of it.
Do not allow the greens to be swished.
Pick up all the dead leaves around the course and distribute them evenly in all greenside bunkers and water them profusely.
Give 18 big fat gits an hour each to walk around and around each hole so that the cup sits in a depression.
Allow a pack of Dingo's to dig around in the greenside bunkers.

Ha! Excellent!

I'll add...

Make sure the greens are hollow tined and/or have a liberal sprinkling of very course sand.
Play some greens on temps.
Put in some flags that are only half height... maybe have none at all, and definitely no rakes!
Don't move the holes for at least 7 days until a proper volcano effect is visible.
Flood up a couple of the bunkers.
Make them play behind the ladies roll-up.
Put a ditch on every hole at driving distance.
Don't mow the tee boxes... so you can effectively start with a bad lie!
Make sure the tees are upturned saucers so the ball is always above/below foot height.
and.... make it 600 tons of wormcasts!

 

[Foxholer]

I always used to think at Wentworth it seemed daft for pro's not to go for the green in two as if they were off course they just got a free drop in a nicely mow patch of semi

That was pre 'Caring's Creek' days and demonstrated how technology/fitness had got the better of once great courses. Last year the birdie (or disaster) was made with the wedge in - having hit 5-wood or Rescue off the tee!

This year's change is the addition of a 40-50yd (approx) shelf just before the first ditch - level where the bunker on the right was (it's now gone but the shelf is mainly on the left). If they can drive to that target, then it's a flat area so can go for green - approx 220 or so? So fairway has now been tricked up too! They've also topped the tree(s) on the right that Draw-ers had to avoid - and removed one in the bail-out area over water right.

Dropping zones are pretty dodgy areas to be in already - certainly by last day! Always in the rough, though that area (left) is a pretty good bail-out area anyway as grass is always wimpy there.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Just so I know exactly what you mean here - are you saying leave the sand to compact more?

Nicklaus ordered all the rakes to have every other tooth out of the rakes at the Memorial a few years ago meaning the bunkers weren't smooth but had grooves in them that the ball could sit down in - The players had all sorts of fun trying to get control out of them. Stuff like that is what we're after.

It was also quite interesting to hear people say the Fairways in Abu Dhabi were narrower last week than the previous year when in fact all they had done is overseeded the rough so it was more penal.

There are plenty of things that can be done to make hitting the fairway more of a reward but the players won't like it.

 

[jammag]

Personally if I had the choice, I would plant a lot more trees in what would be the rough, I would make everywhere the same cut as the fairway, so if you wasnt accurate short or long hitter your ball would just keep running into them trees. Then to really make them work rather than these get out bunkers that players aim for as a safe shot, I would fill 50% of the bunkers with water and make them into ponds so extra water hazards. Make the players think a bit more and really show some good safety and recovery shots. This would probably mean no decent players would want to turn up to my event so I would have to fork out a lot more in prize money.

 

[garyinderry]

i dont agree with the no raking of the bunkers. there is a large fairway bunker on the 7th at my course on the left which is also in play on the right of the 14th coming back up the hill in the opposite direction. it is that big that it never gets properly raked and more often than not you will find you're ball in a nice big foot print. its things like that , that can ruin a good round. i wouldnt like to see a pro tournament decided by something as silly as this.

as someone else has already said. let the pros get on with it as they are playing a completly differnt game to the rest of us.

i do like the idea of those grass bunkers though!

 

[chrisd]

After yesterdays round at Westerham the answer is obvious, a light sprinkling of snow, bits of ice on frozen greens, frozen sand in bunkers, a fresh Siberian breeze ..... not too difficult to organise in this country



Chris

 

[MashieNiblick]

This has been a really interesting thread.

I've been thinking what I would suggest and I've concluded that in most cases I don't think they do need to be made tougher. Shooting in the low 60's is still an achievement just as it was 30 years ago and there are still tournaments like the Open or the US Open where, depending on the course and the weather, there won't be many scores under par.

As a spectator I just want the courses to have some variety, to reward good golf rather than good luck, to promote imagination in shot making and not just be a driver - wedge - putt fest and to give players like Luke as good as chance of winning as the big hitters and I think pretty much that's where we are as shown by Luke's success on both sides of the pond.

I'm not keen on some of the artificial manicured monsters like the recent Abu Dhabi track but it produced a great tournament. I thought the Links where they played the week before was a fabulous course.

There are some courses like Wentworth where it was beginning to yield up too many low scores. As a great course which deserved to keep it's place on the Tour it did need to be toughened up and apart from 18 I think the changes were mostly OK although I know others don't agree.

In those sorts of cases I think it is a matter of being sympathetic to the original designer's intentions. The West course was once known as the "Burma Road" so you expect it to be a tough track. Length, bunkers and fast greens would be be my answer there. At an Open venue it might be more a question of just letting the rough grow, adding a few more pot bunkers, hoping for the wind to blow and if it doesn't, just enjoying watching the guys shooting in the 60's.

By the way does anyone know if they have made many changes at Royal Portrush in preparation for the Irish Open?

Finally just had a quick look on the Royal Lytham website to see itf there was any news about chnages for the Open and saw this quote by Bernard Darwin describing the links

'Hit your ball to the right place and the way to the hole is open to you, but hit your ball to the wrong place and every kind of punishment, whether immediate or ultimate, will ensue'.

Not a bad principle for designing a golf course.