How much progress can you make without lessons?

[Face breaker]

I much prefer to work things out for myself but the odd pointer here and there doesn't go amiss, as for paying for lessons, not my cuppa I'm afraid, it's not that it's a waste of money or anything but how many times are you gonna pay to be told the same thing...

My thing is not keeping the elbow in enough (getting all chicken winged) and I know that if my shots are starting to get a bit loose then that's the first thing I tend to look at...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In my experience yes - you can learn the game and get down to a handicap of 6 - my only lessons being from Ben Hogan in following his 5 Lessons The Modern Fundamentals of Golf

It took me a long time to get to 6 (20yrs) - but the real problem I found was when it went wrong. I had no idea what I was doing - I had no idea what my swing looked like, I just had no idea how to fix it. Eventually I gave up and went for a lesson. My issue was identified after 6 shots.

 

[IanM]

This really depends on peoples' preferred learning styles, their level of natural ability and how they play.

No right answer, everyone's different.... need to understand what works for you and do that.

 

[PJ87]

I'm struggling after my latest lesson

The 4 previous got a lovely slight draw to irons and driving was going well

Now I had a chipping lesson can chip well but got the shanks

 

[brendy]

You need lessons, no-one can really argue with that, non professional self diagnosis can do more harm than good. It's who you go to that can make the bigger difference though.

 

[Jimaroid]

I'd describe myself as self taught. Shot rounds in mid-low 70's and then decided to start having lessons about 2 years ago. Ever since I've struggled to break 80.

Wish I could go back to the days when I just stepped up and hit the ball without thinking.

To be fair I'm definitely better in every part of my game but I've had a year of shanks and not much practice. Even so, I long for the thought free swing I used to have.

 

[Jensen]

The most important thing I've found,from personal experience,is to find a Pro who teaches the INDIVIDUAL and not the METHOD.
A good Pro will identify what you do naturally and apply that. Far too many I've found just want to teach how they swing and not how you swing.
Anything that is based on natural movements is going to make more sense, will be easily applied and repeatable.

 

[Face breaker]

The most important thing I've found,from personal experience,is to find a Pro who teaches the INDIVIDUAL and not the METHOD.
A good Pro will identify what you do naturally and apply that. Far too many I've found just want to teach how they swing and not how you swing.
Anything that is based on natural movements is going to make more sense, will be easily applied and repeatable.

Totally agree, they're very few and far between from what I can make of it, the pro at my club seems to be a great advocate of the 'method skool of teaching' which is all very well if yer 16yrs old and as flexible as well boiled spaghetti but at 43 I can't bend like that any longer...

Rather than end up a lower handicapper I'd probably just end up handicapped if I tried to do what they asked...

 

[ScienceBoy]

I need 6 hours a year or I flop like a wet haddock

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Big advocate of lessons. I've had to work hard for any meagre success and personally think lessons help. I know from experience if I leave it for a while, I'll ingrain bad faults (usually posture, alignment and takeaway) which can be hard to fathom on the course but can be changed and improved in a lesson. It's a personal thing but I believe without them I'd get worse (than I am now)

 

[smange]

Big advocate of lessons. I've had to work hard for any meagre success and personally think lessons help. I know from experience if I leave it for a while, I'll ingrain bad faults (usually posture, alignment and takeaway) which can be hard to fathom on the course but can be changed and improved in a lesson. It's a personal thing but I believe without them I'd get worse (than I am now)

So your a big advocate of lessons and they help? Your also a user of aimpoint which you say has lowered your putting average per round! Your also a user of NGT which you say helps you with the mental side of your game, you've had your clubs fitted which you say gives you confidence in your clubs when hitting them and you practice pretty religiously...........

Can you tell us how your handicap has faired since taking on board all this?


Never had a lesson myself in my 10 years of playing and managed to get to 4 at start of this season, sneaked back up to 5 (4.5) in recent weeks from an initial starting handicap of 18.

 

[jim8flog]

I'm struggling after my latest lesson

The 4 previous got a lovely slight draw to irons and driving was going well

Now I had a chipping lesson can chip well but got the shanks

The draw and the shanks are two bedfellows sadly.

I had never shanked a ball in 20+ years of playing but I hit everything left to right. As I got older I realised that to maintain my length I needed to learn to draw the ball, then the shanks started.

 

[Orikoru]

The most important thing I've found,from personal experience,is to find a Pro who teaches the INDIVIDUAL and not the METHOD.
A good Pro will identify what you do naturally and apply that. Far too many I've found just want to teach how they swing and not how you swing.
Anything that is based on natural movements is going to make more sense, will be easily applied and repeatable.

One of the reasons I don't have lessons is that I'd be mainly selecting where to get them by geographical location, but I'd have absolutely no idea if the pro there was any good or not. And it's not like you're going to book lessons with 5 different pros just to try them all out before deciding who to stick with.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The draw and the shanks are two bedfellows sadly.

I had never shanked a ball in 20+ years of playing but I hit everything left to right. As I got older I realised that to maintain my length I needed to learn to draw the ball, then the shanks started.

I hit a regular low draw for donkeys years - with the occasional s***k thrown in. But then my golf got out of the groove and I found myself occasionally hitting a low draw with regular s****s.

I could not fix it as I was self taught and knew not why I was doing it (neither the low draws nor the s****s). And 18months ago to one of our Asst Pros eventually I trotted - in utter despair. He asked me to hit 6 balls. I did - and hit 6 s****s. And he said - yes - well - you have a problem - but I know what it is and I know the answer.

18months later I hit a generally fairly high neutral flight ball - with maybe slight draw - and only very rarely hit a s***k. And when I do the latter I now know why, and just knowing why is a great relief and enables me to put one behind me very easily.

And - from 18months ago being on the verge of chucking the game - last Saturday in the monthly Saturday medal I knocked it round in 3 under handicap; won the medal; got cut to single figures after 10+ years languishing in the 10-13 range - and did not have a single s***k

 

[shortgame]

Big advocate of lessons. I've had to work hard for any meagre success and personally think lessons help. I know from experience if I leave it for a while, I'll ingrain bad faults (usually posture, alignment and takeaway) which can be hard to fathom on the course but can be changed and improved in a lesson. It's a personal thing but I believe without them I'd get worse (than I am now)

Honest question... I think in your youth you used to be fairly low and an assistant Pro (or had aspirations to be)? How did you get to that level, was it just down to your love of the game, being young & without responsibilities & practicing all the time and/or down to lessons?

Did you practice 'better' or just play more etc?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Honest question... I think in your youth you used to be fairly low and an assistant Pro (or had aspirations to be)? How did you get to that level, was it just down to your love of the game, being young & without responsibilities & practicing all the time and/or down to lessons?

Did you practice 'better' or just play more etc?

If I may answer your questions given my own experience.

I got quite low (6 h/cap) by playing a lot from my early 20s to my early 30s.

I had taught myself using Hogans book from the age of about 13 - and though I played pretty regularly I wasn't a member of a club and didn't play a huge amount. Even when a member of my first club from age 17-21 I tended to play mostly by myself - and never got a handicap as I was an Associate Member and so couldn't play weekends.

When I moved away from home I joined a club and started playing very regularly. My first handicap was 16 and within three months I was off 13.

And it was simply because I played a lot. I never had lessons but had developed a swing from my early days with Hogan. Because I had never had lessons I never practiced - other than by playing - as I didn't know what to practice.

I just really enjoyed playing - and although I knew there were issues with my swing (things did go horribly wrong with the occasional shot) I had no idea what I'd done; indeed I had no idea what my golf swing looked like (someone once told me it looked like Hogan's - I was chuffed). But I loved playing and so just played - and got to 6.

BUT, BUT. I pretty much stopped playing for about 8 years when children arrived - maybe got out 2-3 times a year.

When I joined a club again I found I'd 'lost the groove' - and I had no idea how to regain it - as I had no idea how I swung the club when I was down at 6. And my arrogance kept me away from lessons for many 'not great' years. They weren't miserable but I'd lost it - and drifted up to 13. I could not fix it - and then the s****s appeared like a plague on me. The end of my golf was in sight - it was utterly, utterly miserable.

So defeated, I dragged myself to one of our Asst Pros. And as already related - he spotted my problem immediately - it was pretty much ALL about the takeaway.

And he fixed it. I practiced - a bit - not much - but enough to get the idea properly in my head - and for a year when playing really focussed on doing what I had been told to do.

A further 8months on - and things so much better

Lesson for me is that it was my arrogance - that I had learned the game so I could fix my game - that caused me years of - yes - misery. Today I am loving my golf - and feel my game improving almost every time I go out. And I have another lesson coming along soon. Just to review where my swing now is - I don;t want to be developing new bad habits.

Onwards and Upwards - to Infinity and Beyond!!!

 

[garyinderry]

Lessons are great. There are a number of times when they are most useful.

1) if you are just starting out. Why not get a good base to start with. Saves a lot of pain and frustration as golf is hard. Especially when you first try and scoop the ball into the air.

2) if you have been playing for a while and a major fault is holding you back. (hooks, shanks, tops etc. The list for that is endless)

3) specific part of the game is weak. (driving, chipping, bunker , putting etc)

4) you are a pretty handy golfer and want to take the next step. Cat 1 Boys looking to go low.


For the most part, I am a huge advocate of people going out there and working stuff out for themselves. At times there is little substitute. Go to the practice chipping green. Try old school hands ahead hitting down chips and pitches, learn the new method of pitching using bounce and how effective is can be. Try a myriad of different lies. See what suits best for each situation you find yourself in.

For the swing itself, this as you can see with top pros is a never ending quest. Some guys on tour swing in a beautiful picture perfect model type swing we all aspire to. It doesn't mean they play any better than the guys with funky backswings. Again with this you have to stand and to borrow a phrase, 'dig it out of the dirt'. You have to try things, you have to get it wrong, spectacularly wrong, you have to think you have cracked it, over and over again, then lose it again, but each and every day you are out there trying, you are learning, or at least you should be.

Try something you read in golf monthly, then try the opposite and see what it does to your ball flight.

I go through stages personally where my game is good and then not so good. I used to be the worlds biggest slicer when I started, then 3 years ago I HAD to have a lesson as I had a serious case of the hooks.

Its all a learning game. As I sit here now I know more about controlling the ball and its flight than I did this time last year. No doubt about it.

I was saddened to read that post earlier on the week about the guy who might pack it all in after a run of bad rounds. I don't know if he has the heart for it. Golf can break you down but also give you great pleasure. To get the most of it, you have to put some effort in. That's the only constant in this game.

Some guys play for fun. They just get up and hit it. Others pit themselves against the course and themselves. They strive for improvement. I have a competitive streak in me that this game allows me to tickle.

How far can you go without lessons? there is no doubt, you can improve quickly with or without lessons. You can pick up ideas from all sorts of sources. Either golf monthly tips in the mag, YouTube clips or your local pro.

Just today on Facebook there was an article on one of the local PGA pros who will be playing at the PGA championship. He calls himself, in his own words' an expert of the game'. But even he says he is still learning and that's what he is looking forward to most when teeing it up this week.

 

[big_matt]

There are tour pro's who never had a less on before turning pro so in theory you can become a scratch golfer without any lessons.

A lesson from a good pro really helps though as you may have faults which will stop you getting past a certain point.

 

[patricks148]

There are tour pro's who never had a less on before turning pro so in theory you can become a scratch golfer without any lessons.

A lesson from a good pro really helps though as you may have faults which will stop you getting past a certain point.

very true, you can get to being a pro with no lessons, but that would be the exception rather than the rule. I got to single fig without any, but i think i would have got there long before with some lessons. Disn't have any till off 6 then struggled with shermans and pulls etc. the lessons got me to 5 and below. very consistent with my irons now.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

very true, you can get to being a pro with no lessons, but that would be the exception rather than the rule. I got to single fig without any, but i think i would have got there long before with some lessons. Disn't have any till off 6 then struggled with shermans and pulls etc. the lessons got me to 5 and below. very consistent with my irons now.

I see quite a lot of me in your post @patrick148.

Will I ever get to 5? Dunno. I think I would have to actually practice...and not sure I'm up for that - playing is my thing.

But one thing I am 99% sure of. I might have got to 5 when I was off 6 those many years ago having never had a lesson but playing with a swing that had a fundamental flaw in it ...but if I get to 6 in the coming couple of years, I believe that have a decent chance of getting to 5 as the two lessons I had 18months ago addressed the flaw - and my swing today is a much better base for me reducing my handicap.

Just looking at my stats for the last year - starting not long after I had my most recent of the two lessons) and what I was actually shooting in comps - on 28th August 2016 I shot 11 over par. From then until 10th June this year I did not score better than 13 over and was regularly up to 17 over. This I put down to getting the lessons bedded in - I was less concerned about what I was scoring than focussing on doing what I had been taught. Since then over 6 qualifiers my worse score has been 12 over (one over handicap) and in all 6 I have been buffer zone or better.

My game is now heading quite strongly in a good direction - and feels better and more solid than it, frankly, ever has. Sunday August medal this coming weekend. I am 9.1 - another three under handicap will see me 8.5 - and that is very nearly 8

Yes I know - but see me thinking positively about my game...and all because I had a couple of lessons and then worked on what I was taught. For the first time in my golfing life I realised that I could not fix my game - I put my arrogance in a box and sought help and advice