How close to a sprinkler head do you need to be to get relief?

[IanG]

Just checking I'm (hopefully) right on something that came up last night.
We get free relief frominterfrerence by sprinkler heads in the fairway and I think they are classed as 'abnormal ground conditions'. Looking at 16.1a which defines when interference exists as

" An abnormal course condition physically interferes with the player’s area of intended stance or area of intended swing, or.."

So last night the ball was 3 inches in front of the sprinkler head. In all likelihood the player could hit the ball without hitting the sprinkler head but it would have definitely been a major distraction when taking his swing.

Free relief or not ?

What if it had been only 1 inch in front ?

I note the word 'physically' in the quote above and if taken literally would seem to say no relief in either scenario.

 

[rulefan]

When toy say 'in front', do you mean on the tee side or green side of the sprinkler?
However, if the is any prospect of your normal stroke hitting the obstruction during the stroke or follow through, then relief is available.

 

[rulie]

It says "physically" so that "mental interference" is excluded. If I were the referee, I would permit free relief at 1 inch, but I'd need to see the situation specifics at 3 inches.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It says "physically" so that "mental interference" is excluded. If I were the referee, I would permit free relief at 1 inch, but I'd need to see the situation specifics at 3 inches.

With the greatest of respect, how does that help the club golfer?

 

[duncan mackie]

With the greatest of respect, how does that help the club golfer?

It doesn't per se.

The relevant bit being that you ha e to consider the stroke and the person making it - personally I would consider 3" too close for the majority of club golfers without any further consideration; 3" fat isn't guaranteed to happen, but well within the bounds of reasonable interference.
There's also the matter of "he is already on the fairway" so how is he going to gain from taking relief (other than getting clear of the IO he is entitled to get clear of?)

 

[IanG]

When toy say 'in front', do you mean on the tee side or green side of the sprinkler?
However, if the is any prospect of your normal stroke hitting the obstruction during the stroke or follow through, then relief is available.

By 'in front' I mean the ball is closer to the green than the sprinkler head.

An amalgam of Rulefan, Rulie and Duncan's inputs makes it clear how to proceed - Thanks

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It doesn't per se.

The relevant bit being that you ha e to consider the stroke and the person making it - personally I would consider 3" too close for the majority of club golfers without any further consideration; 3" fat isn't guaranteed to happen, but well within the bounds of reasonable interference.
There's also the matter of "he is already on the fairway" so how is he going to gain from taking relief (other than getting clear of the IO he is entitled to get clear of?)

Thanks Duncan, I wasn’t trying to be awkward, sometimes a minimum or maximum distance can be unhelpful, especially with so many variances.

 

[rulie]

With the greatest of respect, how does that help the club golfer?

Other than that there is no relief for mental interference, it probably doesn't help the club golfer. But the Rules are very careful not to indicate a specific distance to help the club golfer, it all depends on whether or not there is interference and that depends on the specifics of the situation.

 

[jim8flog]

Worth checking local rules as well because there is often relief for line of play if the sprinkler is within two club lengths of the green and the ball is within two clubs of the sprinkler head.

 

[duncan mackie]

Worth checking local rules as well because there is often relief for line of play if the sprinkler is within two club lengths of the green and the ball is within two clubs of the sprinkler head.

But it is also required to be on the players line of play....which if it's 3" behind the ball it won't be!

 

[2blue]

Worth checking local rules as well because there is often relief for line of play if the sprinkler is within two club lengths of the green and the ball is within two clubs of the sprinkler head.

This is the LR I've seen most often & likely to interfere badly.... fairway issues of this nature are pretty irrelevant as far as gaining an advantage is concerned.

 

[duncan mackie]

This is the LR I've seen most often & likely to interfere badly.... fairway issues of this nature are pretty irrelevant as far as gaining an advantage is concerned.

That will be primarily because the relief from the sprinkler itself doesn't require a LR.

 

[2blue]

That will be primarily because the relief from the sprinkler itself doesn't require a LR.

Dooh… so was that 'last years' LR's I remember when it had to be mentioned as such?

 

[Colin L]

Dooh… so was that 'last years' LR's I remember when it had to be mentioned as such?

I think you are getting confused between two different matters:
1. Relief from interference by an immovable obstruction (such as a sprinkler head) which allows you relief anywhere on the course other than a penalty area. That is built into the Rules - Rule 16.

2. Relief from intervention on your line of play by an immovable obstruction within two club-lengths of the putting green if your ball lies within 2 club-lengths of it. That requires a Local Rule to be in place.

This is not new to 2019.

 

[Orikoru]

This seems like one of those situations where you propose getting relief to your PPs or FCs and see how lenient they are.

 

[duncan mackie]

This seems like one of those situations where you propose getting relief to your PPs or FCs and see how lenient they are.

This might come as a surprise to you but it's not their call...

 

[Orikoru]

This might come as a surprise to you but it's not their call...

I was talking about what actually happens on golf courses every week.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I was talking about what actually happens on golf courses every week.

So was Duncan and his comment is spot on

It’s not up to your Playing Partners to give relief - with the absence of a referee then it’s self policing as been mentioned to you already. You carry out the rules to the best of your ability - if unsure play two balls and confirm with an official after

 

[Orikoru]

So was Duncan and his comment is spot on

It’s not up to your Playing Partners to give relief - with the absence of a referee then it’s self policing as been mentioned to you already. You carry out the rules to the best of your ability - if unsure play two balls and confirm with an official after

That's what I mean though. In practise if the rules aren't precisely clear don't you normally just play what everyone in the group agrees upon? If anyone says 3 inches isn't near enough to get the relief then I wouldn't do it. If anyone asked me as it was their ball 3 inches from a sprinkler, I'd say they were fine since they're not going nearer the hole and I think that's the fairest thing to do.

 

[duncan mackie]

That's what I mean though. In practise if the rules aren't precisely clear don't you normally just play what everyone in the group agrees upon? If anyone says 3 inches isn't near enough to get the relief then I wouldn't do it. If anyone asked me as it was their ball 3 inches from a sprinkler, I'd say they were fine since they're not going nearer the hole and I think that's the fairest thing to do.

I think this is an important principle, so let me try and present it as clearly as I can.
1. If you aren't in competition you can do what you like, how you like it - the end.
2. If you are in competition the rules are there to enable you to compete either against opponents, or against the field. In the former situation, match play, what you agree with your opponents is fine until you don't agree - at which point you have a choice; do what you believe the rules permit, and risk them making a claim that you were in breach of the rules which then has to be ruled on by the committee, or agree with their view.
In a stroke play event if your marker doesn't agree with what you did he will refuse to sign your card (so it's good to discuss it with him at the time to avoid later hassle) and if your fellow competitors don't agree they must raise it with the committee (so again it is sensible to gauge opinion at the time - but unlike match play consensus doesn't make what was done correct).
In this particular situation the correct procedure if you believe you are entitled to relief, but your marker or others disagree, is to proceed under 20.1 c (which incidentially starts with the line "no right to decide rules issues by agreement"). Note this is fundamentally different from you making a decision and no body having any issues with it - the point I think Liverpool Phil was making.