Has anyone tried any of the new drivers?

[Deleted member 1147]

Its certainly an interesting topic and must be fertile study for marketing psychologists. The physics and facts of the matter are well know from a scientific standpoint.
Yet a combination of desire for a sharper tool, hope, lack of critical analysis, and a very strong and sustained marketing message can create a totally false belief system. But I suppose people believe in scientology and homeopathy and whatever.

And an inbuilt robustness in the message on drivers is that the very people who know the truth best, the manufacturers, are the same ones who have an existential motivation to not only maintain the omerta, but keep peddling the illusion.

This isnt the best place for a rational discussion on it either maybe. It does feel a little like listening to a group of theologians debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, and someone says - but angels dont exist! Still, I think would benefit the average golfer to have a more accurate perspective on equipment than one which distracts them pointlessly from their goal of improving their golf score.

You’re just wrong, don’t worry about it, a lot of your posts are wrong, so we’re used to it

 

[Jamie23]

That’s the big improvement in modern clubs that I’ve noticed. The miss hits are so much better than with older clubs.
I had a 5 year old driver and when I changed the misshits went about 20-30 yds further.

What driver are you currently using and what did you change from?

I fully expected to see some sort of improvement with the Ping G430 but unfortunately not.

It was range balls on a driving range so again it’s not really a proper situation of being on the course where you are getting a much better gauge of the benefits a newer model could potentially bring on mishits

 

[Deleted member 1147]

What driver are you currently using and what did you change from?

I fully expected to see some sort of improvement with the Ping G430 but unfortunately not.

It was range balls on a driving range so again it’s not really a proper situation of being on the course where you are getting a much better gauge of the benefits a newer model could potentially bring on mishits

I had a Titleist 917 (from 2017) and changed to a TM Stealth last year.
Whilst good strikes go a bit further, misshits go a long way further.

 

[patricks148]

Its certainly an interesting topic and must be fertile study for marketing psychologists. The physics and facts of the matter are well know from a scientific standpoint.
Yet a combination of desire for a sharper tool, hope, lack of critical analysis, and a very strong and sustained marketing message can create a totally false belief system. But I suppose people believe in scientology and homeopathy and whatever.

And an inbuilt robustness in the message on drivers is that the very people who know the truth best, the manufacturers, are the same ones who have an existential motivation to not only maintain the omerta, but keep peddling the illusion.

This isnt the best place for a rational discussion on it either maybe. It does feel a little like listening to a group of theologians debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, and someone says - but angels dont exist! Still, I think would benefit the average golfer to have a more accurate perspective on equipment than one which distracts them pointlessly from their goal of improving their golf score.

I take it you are still using hickory clubs?
Are you in the BGCS?

 

[Imurg]

What driver are you currently using and what did you change from?

I fully expected to see some sort of improvement with the Ping G430 but unfortunately not.

It was range balls on a driving range so again it’s not really a proper situation of being on the course where you are getting a much better gauge of the benefits a newer model could potentially bring on mishits

People will get different results from different drivers....
The G430, and the shaft, may just not have been right wheres someone else could hit the same setup and gain yards...
A different shaft ( and proper balls) and it could have been a completely different set of results..
When I got my 430 I tried all the shafts and it was plain that a couple of them were just not good for me.

 

[Bratty]

I lost 10 yards when I was fitted for the Ping G425 SFT which I was more than happy with, as my dispersion was so much better than any driver I've used or others I tested on the day (Sim Max, Epic Flash and Cobra Radspeed). I'm now keeping the ball in play almost all the time. 3 off the tee is rare and the ball is normally in the fairway or the first cut.
I've gone from 13.2 to 9.4 in no small part because of it. So I wasn't fussed about distance and have been proved right.

 

[Backsticks]

Some interesting real facts in the following, but a drier read than a blurb on a manufacturers site.
Manufacturers have been keen to push the more nebulous concept of forgiveness and dispersion (which taken even more shots than distance to establish consistent data) and effectively nobody tests for. But does kill the myth of improvement on those in recent years as well. Both percentiles on distance and fairways hit, statistically constant for close to 20 years. Meta data, which can be both a positive and a negative, but quite indicative. And crucially, from a source with no commercial bias or vested interest.
Translated into actual influence on a golfers score : no change since the move to the modern ball and all manufacturers stabilised to the 460cc driver and graphite shaft in the early 00s. And of course, no change in 20 equates to no change/20 in any given year, or, even less than no change.


R05 - Analysis of Amateur Driving Distance 1996-2018.pdf (kc-usercontent.com)

.

 

[Bamberdele2.0]

People will get different results from different drivers....
The G430, and the shaft, may just not have been right wheres someone else could hit the same setup and gain yards...
A different shaft ( and proper balls) and it could have been a completely different set of results..
When I got my 430 I tried all the shafts and it was plain that a couple of them were just not good for me.

Do you know what your club head speed is?

What flex and weight shaft are you using with the 430?

 

[MiurasFan]

Some interesting real facts in the following, but a drier read than a blurb on a manufacturers site.
Manufacturers have been keen to push the more nebulous concept of forgiveness and dispersion (which taken even more shots than distance to establish consistent data) and effectively nobody tests for. But does kill the myth of improvement on those in recent years as well. Both percentiles on distance and fairways hit, statistically constant for close to 20 years. Meta data, which can be both a positive and a negative, but quite indicative. And crucially, from a source with no commercial bias or vested interest.
Translated into actual influence on a golfers score : no change since the move to the modern ball and all manufacturers stabilised to the 460cc driver and graphite shaft in the early 00s. And of course, no change in 20 equates to no change/20 in any given year, or, even less than no change.


R05 - Analysis of Amateur Driving Distance 1996-2018.pdf (kc-usercontent.com)

.

That analysis may be useful for clubs wanting to keep holes and hazards relevant for the various handicap groupings, but, unfortunately, has little use when comparing the effect of new technology in Drivers for individual players! To do that, it's any increase by individuals - who may well have changed handicap category as a result - not handicap categories as groups.

 

[Imurg]

Do you know what your club head speed is?

What flex and weight shaft are you using with the 430?

97/98 mph club speed
Settled on the Hzrdus Smoke RDX Red 60 in stiff...
I can still knobble it with the best of them but it's much more consistent than my old Callaway - which I thought wouldn't be beaten....

 

[HeftyHacker]

That analysis may be useful for clubs wanting to keep holes and hazards relevant for the various handicap groupings, but, unfortunately, has little use when comparing the effect of new technology in Drivers for individual players! To do that, it's any increase by individuals - who may well have changed handicap category as a result - not handicap categories as groups.

It also doesn't account for causal factors such as weather in particular year ie drier summers in certain years leading to greater rollout and increased years, course changes, topography of holes used year on year etc. For example 2005 was one of the years with longest drives but was also a very warm summer (hottest since 1976 i think).

Also wasn't 2005 the year that Cobra released the sz400? Which had that spring face that has since been made illegal?

Its not really conclusive of anything.

 

[Slab]

Not really worth a separate thread but… how many iterations in advance do you think clubs (drivers specifically) are already conceptually designed i.e all known improvements/advancements are not in the current model but instead certain tech is being held back for future releases ?

I’m just not buying it that coincidently & repeatedly within the same timeframe (annually) that a manufacture (& concurrent with most other top manufactures) have all just ‘discovered’ how to make xyz material 4x thinner or whatever other advancement the newest club/s have

 

[Imurg]

Not really worth a separate thread but… how many iterations in advance do you think clubs (drivers specifically) are already conceptually designed i.e all known improvements/advancements are not in the current model but instead certain tech is being held back for future releases ?

I’m just not buying it that coincidently & repeatedly within the same timeframe (annually) that a manufacture (& concurrent with most other top manufactures) have all just ‘discovered’ how to make xyz material 4x thinner or whatever other advancement the newest club/s have

Apparently the Stealth was 20 years in the making..
I was told by a senior Callaway guy that they were working on product for release in 3 to 4 years time, sometimes longer....this was back in 2014
So they'd have been working on Paradym for a similar period at least...
Quite often they develop a new thing like Jailbreak or Twist-Face but it takes a couple of years to refine it enough to fit into the clubhead without diminishing other areas of performance.
Ping didn't really embrace adjustable clubs until the G400 range - 2017 - because they couldn't get them to work without affecting performance
Many other had been doing adjustable for 5 years by then - possibly putting "adjustability " over performance.?

 

[Slab]

Apparently the Stealth was 20 years in the making..
I was told by a senior Callaway guy that they were working on product for release in 3 to 4 years time, sometimes longer....this was back in 2014
So they'd have been working on Paradym for a similar period at least...
Quite often they develop a new thing like Jailbreak or Twist-Face but it takes a couple of years to refine it enough to fit into the clubhead without diminishing other areas of performance.
Ping didn't really embrace adjustable clubs until the G400 range - 2017 - because they couldn't get them to work without affecting performance
Many other had been doing adjustable for 5 years by then - possibly putting "adjustability " over performance.?

Interesting

I was thinking about it because the pretty consistent message from all* the new drivers releases all seemed to be...'making xyz thinner has allowed abc etc etc' in the blurb

What's happened in the short time from one release to the next to make it possible to be 25% thinner or 6x thinner

Got me wondering why no tech weenie from any of the big boys stood up last time round and said, "erm, so is that as thin as we can go then?"

 

[patricks148]

Some interesting real facts in the following, but a drier read than a blurb on a manufacturers site.
Manufacturers have been keen to push the more nebulous concept of forgiveness and dispersion (which taken even more shots than distance to establish consistent data) and effectively nobody tests for. But does kill the myth of improvement on those in recent years as well. Both percentiles on distance and fairways hit, statistically constant for close to 20 years. Meta data, which can be both a positive and a negative, but quite indicative. And crucially, from a source with no commercial bias or vested interest.
Translated into actual influence on a golfers score : no change since the move to the modern ball and all manufacturers stabilised to the 460cc driver and graphite shaft in the early 00s. And of course, no change in 20 equates to no change/20 in any given year, or, even less than no change.


R05 - Analysis of Amateur Driving Distance 1996-2018.pdf (kc-usercontent.com)

.

Could this data not just mean the standard of golf has dropped in the last 25 years?

 

[Imurg]

Interesting

I was thinking about it because the pretty consistent message from all* the new drivers releases all seemed to be...'making xyz thinner has allowed abc etc etc' in the blurb

What's happened in the short time from one release to the next to make it possible to be 25% thinner or 6x thinner

Got me wondering why no tech weenie from any of the big boys stood up last time round and said, "erm, so is that as thin as we can go then?"

I guess this is one of the reasons for the high cost of all clubs...the raft of engineers doing nothing but trying to get that extra little bit of tech to work with everything else within tightish restrictions. Using different materials and weight in different places. Carbon crowns have made a huge difference.
If 1mph extra ball speed equates to 3 yards then finding 3+ mph more from off centre hits - we all know that centre strikes on drivers go more or less the same distance - means an extra 10 yards or more from your low heel strike...which is a tangible improvement for the average p,ayer who misses the middle more than hits it.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I guess this is one of the reasons for the high cost of all clubs...the raft of engineers doing nothing but trying to get that extra little bit of tech to work with everything else within tightish restrictions. Using different materials and weight in different places. Carbon crowns have made a huge difference.
If 1mph extra ball speed equates to 3 yards then finding 3+ mph more from off centre hits - we all know that centre strikes on drivers go more or less the same distance - means an extra 10 yards or more from your low heel strike...which is a tangible improvement for the average p,ayer who misses the middle more than hits it.

I remember back when i was 20, I was on holiday and got speaking to a fella about golf, it turned out that he worked for Callaway.
They were at that time, 22 years ago, using the same technology in golf club design as Rolls Royce were using to keep aeroplanes in the sky. Experimenting with the same metallurgic stresses, aerodynamics etc as major industrial companies.
It's no wonder improvements have been made and costs have gone up. R&D must be costing a fortune.

 

[Bamberdele2.0]

97/98 mph club speed
Settled on the Hzrdus Smoke RDX Red 60 in stiff...
I can still knobble it with the best of them but it's much more consistent than my old Callaway - which I thought wouldn't be beaten....

You’ve been fitted for the exact same set up as me although I have the SFT.

Not surprising your club head speeds were almost identical aswell.

How far does it go though?

 

[KenL]

Spent over and hour trying the latest offerings on trackman at my club.
Ended up buying a G430 LST 10.5 with the Ping tour stiff shaft.
Numbers looked better than my Mavrik subzero that I've had since 2020.

 

[Teebs]

I've had a couple of range sessions with my G430 3 & 4 hybrids and they are brilliant.

The Hzrdus Smoke shaft does need a good level of commitment but they're very anti-left. Getting over 140mph ball speeds with the 3 hybrid and over 135mph with the 4 hybrid peaking at 100ft and landing at 48°.

Very happy.