Happy St Totteringham Day - NOT

[Deleted member 15344]

So good to finish above Arsenal after so long.

Its irrelevant for some to keep banging on about the past and to say we are a selling club that's all it is the past, what's more relevant is where Spurs are at this moment.

We have a better 1-11 than anyone in the league with a young strong side playing the most attractive football with one of the best managers and many players have signed new contracts, the club have stated they are not looking to sell on players and unless Barca or Real Madrid offer huge amounts I can't see this changing.

A top quality striker would be a great addition to the squad.

I think Chelsea, City, Man U. are the only three who could be in a better position than Spurs for the next couple of seasons, mainly because they can spend ridiculous amounts of money, you only have to look at Chelsea's bench to understand why it's hard to compete and the reason why they will win the league.


I agree it will be harder next season having to play our home games at Wembley, interesting to hear someone mention they are going to reduce the pitch size.

Spurs potentially do have the ability to go on - but beyond the 1-11 the depth isn't at the level to fight on all corners throughout the season but lose the odd player for example one of the CB's and it's a struggle.

It wasn't that long ago players like Bale etc signed long term contracts and weren't leaving to go anywhere - it will still happen now if the big boys come calling with the fees and the wages so not sure it can be "in the past" because unless it's Barca , Madrid , Utd and possibly Bayern the rest are clubs that will sell.

If the players are that good then the top clubs will look to buy them using whatever fee is needed - Ali , Walker , Dier , Erickson , Kane , All could go , would cost a lot but it's very plausible just like Bale , Modric , Berbatov in the past.

And the reason is quite simply Spurs aren't at the level of those clubs and don't think they ever will be unless titles and CL start to fill in the cabinet.

 

[guest100718]

Spurs potentially do have the ability to go on - but beyond the 1-11 the depth isn't at the level to fight on all corners throughout the season but lose the odd player for example one of the CB's and it's a struggle.

It wasn't that long ago players like Bale etc signed long term contracts and weren't leaving to go anywhere - it will still happen now if the big boys come calling with the fees and the wages so not sure it can be "in the past" because unless it's Barca , Madrid , Utd and possibly Bayern the rest are clubs that will sell.

If the players are that good then the top clubs will look to buy them using whatever fee is needed - Ali , Walker , Dier , Erickson , Kane , All could go , would cost a lot but it's very plausible just like Bale , Modric , Berbatov in the past.

And the reason is quite simply Spurs aren't at the level of those clubs and don't think they ever will be unless titles and CL start to fill in the cabinet.

Any biters?...
Anyone?
Thought not.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Any biters?...
Anyone?
Thought not.

Instead of trying to suggest I'm looking for a bite why don't you counter my post on why you think it's wrong or why I'm trolling etc etc

Or you could just post a one liner again

 

[guest100718]

Instead of trying to suggest I'm looking for a bite why don't you counter my post on why you think it's wrong or why I'm trolling etc etc

Or you could just post a one liner again

Try posting something reasoned and well thought first, Quality over quantity Mr Phil.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Try posting something reasoned and well thought first, Quality over quantity Mr Phil.

Ok then tell me why it wasn't reasoned ?

For once actually respond to the post as opposed to the poster - highlight the areas specifically within that post that was reasoned ?

 

[Ross61]

Spurs potentially do have the ability to go on - but beyond the 1-11 the depth isn't at the level to fight on all corners throughout the season but lose the odd player for example one of the CB's and it's a struggle.

It wasn't that long ago players like Bale etc signed long term contracts and weren't leaving to go anywhere - it will still happen now if the big boys come calling with the fees and the wages so not sure it can be "in the past" because unless it's Barca , Madrid , Utd and possibly Bayern the rest are clubs that will sell.

If the players are that good then the top clubs will look to buy them using whatever fee is needed - Ali , Walker , Dier , Erickson , Kane , All could go , would cost a lot but it's very plausible just like Bale , Modric , Berbatov in the past.

And the reason is quite simply Spurs aren't at the level of those clubs and don't think they ever will be unless titles and CL start to fill in the cabinet.

Firstly I will state that I have been a Spurs fan for over 40 years.

The depth of the Spurs squad is still better than many other clubs. As far as players leaving for richer clubs, Is this not the reason why Spurs are building a 60,000 seater stadium to get more income including from NFL games the ability to retain top players. If you read what Levy has said in the last 5-10 years, this has been the long term goal. He had often stated that you can't build a new stadium and use up all your finances building it if you can't sustain a top team at the same time.
Spurs are not the only English club to lose big name players to Mega European sides. I am just glad we are not going down the road of snapping up players at the tail end of the careers, and mercenaries.
I just hope Spurs can get some of the money back from that waste of space callled Sissoko, I never understood why we bought him in the first place. Jansen I still have hope for.
No, Spurs are not there yet, but the last 2 seasons have shown how far they have come.
Playing at Wembley for a season does worry me, but getting used to the new stadium the following season does also.
Clubs such as Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal will attract stars by their name alone, for a while, but that will wane if they continue to miss out on CL.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Firstly I will state that I have been a Spurs fan for over 40 years.

The depth of the Spurs squad is still better than many other clubs. As far as players leaving for richer clubs, Is this not the reason why Spurs are building a 60,000 seater stadium to get more income including from NFL games the ability to retain top players. If you read what Levy has said in the last 5-10 years, this has been the long term goal. He had often stated that you can't build a new stadium and use up all your finances building it if you can't sustain a top team at the same time.
Spurs are not the only English club to lose big name players to Mega European sides. I am just glad we are not going down the road of snapping up players at the tail end of the careers, and mercenaries.
I just hope Spurs can get some of the money back from that waste of space callled Sissoko, I never understood why we bought him in the first place. Jansen I still have hope for.
No, Spurs are not there yet, but the last 2 seasons have shown how far they have come.
Playing at Wembley for a season does worry me, but getting used to the new stadium the following season does also.
Clubs such as Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal will attract stars by their name alone, for a while, but that will wane if they continue to miss out on CL.

Having a bigger stadium will no doubt help bring in more revenue and will help the club spend a bit more on wages and fees but unless there is also trophies with it then the club will struggle to attract those big players and also keep hold of the big players. Without CL football then clubs really will struggle to keep and get the decent players , unless you're willing to spend way above the odds or rely on pedigree of past decade ( Man Utd ) for example.

If a club has CL but doesn't take that next step forward then they will get decent players but the Crown Jewels will want to win trophies ( take Arsenal for example ) , then you have the teams that win the titles and get to the semi's or finals of CL , they attract the best players ( Chelsea , City )

So right now Spurs are prob at a very crucial stage - what happens over the next 12 months will be massive for them - will they become another Arsenal , nice big shiney stadium , some quality players , regular CL football but just failing to take the step forward to win something. Or will they use the experience of the last two years and move up the step and win the title and progress in the CL ? When we had Rafa we reached the same sort of stage but couldn't go forward to actually win the title and then through various reason faded away. Spurs will probably lose one of their big players this summer how they react to that and playing in Wembley will be key to the players being recruited

 

[Hobbit]

Spurs potentially do have the ability to go on - but beyond the 1-11 the depth isn't at the level to fight on all corners throughout the season but lose the odd player for example one of the CB's and it's a struggle.

It wasn't that long ago players like Bale etc signed long term contracts and weren't leaving to go anywhere - it will still happen now if the big boys come calling with the fees and the wages so not sure it can be "in the past" because unless it's Barca , Madrid , Utd and possibly Bayern the rest are clubs that will sell.

If the players are that good then the top clubs will look to buy them using whatever fee is needed - Ali , Walker , Dier , Erickson , Kane , All could go , would cost a lot but it's very plausible just like Bale , Modric , Berbatov in the past.

And the reason is quite simply Spurs aren't at the level of those clubs and don't think they ever will be unless titles and CL start to fill in the cabinet.

But go on to what though Phil? In terms of being the best in the EPL, that's Chelsea. As well as the pace of Spurs they have stronger, harder players. Spurs occasionally go missing when the kicking starts, probably best seen when Chelsea kicked them off their stride with a few games to go last season.

They're better but not the finished article in terms of being able to cope with hard teams. That will make the games in the CL next season tough again. But in terms of being good on the eye, I prefer to watch Spurs over Chelsea.

If their ethos has changed, and they're looking not to sell their star players, I can see them being a winning team for a few seasons. Comfortably second ahead of City's aging squad.

As to will they ever be more than a team with potential; I don't even think that's a valid question. They are already a top team in the EPL. Will they ever be a Barca or R. Madrid? I don't think any team in the EPL is close to that at present. As to whatever teams did even 3 seasons ago, that's history and pointless. Its about what you're going to win now and next season, not what you did 2-3 seasons ago.

 

[Ross61]

Having a bigger stadium will no doubt help bring in more revenue and will help the club spend a bit more on wages and fees but unless there is also trophies with it then the club will struggle to attract those big players and also keep hold of the big players. Without CL football then clubs really will struggle to keep and get the decent players , unless you're willing to spend way above the odds or rely on pedigree of past decade ( Man Utd ) for example.

If a club has CL but doesn't take that next step forward then they will get decent players but the Crown Jewels will want to win trophies ( take Arsenal for example ) , then you have the teams that win the titles and get to the semi's or finals of CL , they attract the best players ( Chelsea , City )

So right now Spurs are prob at a very crucial stage - what happens over the next 12 months will be massive for them - will they become another Arsenal , nice big shiney stadium , some quality players , regular CL football but just failing to take the step forward to win something. Or will they use the experience of the last two years and move up the step and win the title and progress in the CL ? When we had Rafa we reached the same sort of stage but couldn't go forward to actually win the title and then through various reason faded away. Spurs will probably lose one of their big players this summer how they react to that and playing in Wembley will be key to the players being recruited

I can't disagree with too much of your post, but as you say, it depends what happens in the next 2-3 seasons at least.
The thing is we could not get to the next stage without doing what we have achieved so far. so with a skilled, motivated and young squad that appear to be unified, I see a bright future.
As far as Arsenal are concerned they have failed to even try to move forward. Same as in any sport, if your goal is just to get in the top 4 and no more, that is all you will ever do.

 

[BristolMike]

I assume by united over paying you mean Pogba, rather than Eric Bailly or Mhikitaryan who were both bought for slightly more than Wijnaldam and less than the cost of Mané. I don't think you're taking into account the commercial revenue Pogba actually brings in though. He commands that fee for more than what he brings to the pitch. Also City have only made 1 CL semi final and never made the final.

I think youre completely wrong about spurs too. Spurs always sold their players because they were never going to push on, so it made financial sense. With the team they have now they will and Levy will know this. The way to turn a team into a financial powerhouse is to be successful and the only way to do that is to keep your players. Spurs have a team who obviously get on well, are all at a good age, have a great manager and have a chairman who always does the best thing for the club financially.

Liverpool dropped away because the seasons they've got close they actually over achieved and the players knew that. It didn't help that Benitez pissed Alonso off by trying to replace him with Gareth Barry either

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But go on to what though Phil? In terms of being the best in the EPL, that's Chelsea. As well as the pace of Spurs they have stronger, harder players. Spurs occasionally go missing when the kicking starts, probably best seen when Chelsea kicked them off their stride with a few games to go last season.

They're better but not the finished article in terms of being able to cope with hard teams. That will make the games in the CL next season tough again. But in terms of being good on the eye, I prefer to watch Spurs over Chelsea.

If their ethos has changed, and they're looking not to sell their star players, I can see them being a winning team for a few seasons. Comfortably second ahead of City's aging squad.

As to will they ever be more than a team with potential; I don't even think that's a valid question. They are already a top team in the EPL. Will they ever be a Barca or R. Madrid? I don't think any team in the EPL is close to that at present. As to whatever teams did even 3 seasons ago, that's history and pointless. Its about what you're going to win now and next season, not what you did 2-3 seasons ago.

Surely it's going on to win the title - that's the next level and previous seasons can help paint a picture - is it just going to be a couple of good season for Spurs then and then back to a 6th to 10th team ? Are they going to be Year on Year challengers to the title and win it every now and then ?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Having a bigger stadium will no doubt help bring in more revenue and will help the club spend a bit more on wages and fees but unless there is also trophies with it then the club will struggle to attract those big players and also keep hold of the big players. Without CL football then clubs really will struggle to keep and get the decent players , unless you're willing to spend way above the odds or rely on pedigree of past decade ( Man Utd ) for example.

If a club has CL but doesn't take that next step forward then they will get decent players but the Crown Jewels will want to win trophies ( take Arsenal for example ) , then you have the teams that win the titles and get to the semi's or finals of CL , they attract the best players ( Chelsea , City )

So right now Spurs are prob at a very crucial stage - what happens over the next 12 months will be massive for them - will they become another Arsenal , nice big shiney stadium , some quality players , regular CL football but just failing to take the step forward to win something. Or will they use the experience of the last two years and move up the step and win the title and progress in the CL ? When we had Rafa we reached the same sort of stage but couldn't go forward to actually win the title and then through various reason faded away. Spurs will probably lose one of their big players this summer how they react to that and playing in Wembley will be key to the players being recruited

Is it bitterness that you don't like to see other teams on the rise?

Why will Spurs probably lose one of their players this summer?

You said in previous posts Spurs had reached their level, why in this post are you questioning that?

Every point you raised can be levied against any Club outside of Chelsea, Utd and City are you suggesting everyone else gives up?

 

[BristolMike]

I think it's more to do with the fact that every year they've got remotely close the big boys have come and taken their best player. Alonso the first time and Suarez the second. The players have wanted to better themselves and if that happens to the mighty Liverpool then it must happen to everyone else. its completely incorrect in this instance though

 

[sawtooth]

I can't disagree with too much of your post, but as you say, it depends what happens in the next 2-3 seasons at least.
The thing is we could not get to the next stage without doing what we have achieved so far. so with a skilled, motivated and young squad that appear to be unified, I see a bright future.
As far as Arsenal are concerned they have failed to even try to move forward. Same as in any sport, if your goal is just to get in the top 4 and no more, that is all you will ever do.

Hang on a sec, Arsenal have been financially hamstrung for years whilst important investment went into the new stadium and training facilities. Don't confuse that with lack of ambition or trying as you put it.

Arsenal's spending both capex and opex is increasing year on year. I am expecting even higher sums to be spent this Summer , this was the whole point of moving to a new ground. Spurs are following the same path (and fair play to them) but unless you choose the Man City-Chelsea fastrack finance model you should expect more seasons of not winning pots in the short term.

 

[Fish]

is it just going to be a couple of good season for Spurs then and then back to a 6th to 10th team ?

You've got to go back 9 years to find them outside of the top 6, so that's hardly just a 'couple of good seasons' in my book, and believe me, that hurts to back them up

They've been sniffing at the backdoor for a while, and now they've broke into the top 4 two seasons back to back, and knowing what that will yield them revenue wise with better sponsorship, commercial and TV deals etc, Levy won't sell his stars IMO, he'll build around them and I can see them, unfortunately, being in the mix for many a season to come

Not the best team in London though :smirk:

2016/17 - 2nd :smirk:
2015/16 - 3rd
2014/15 - 5th
2013/14 - 6th
2012/13 - 5th
2011/12 - 4th
2010/11 - 5th
2009/10 - 4th
2008/09 - 8th

 

[Fish]

Hang on a sec, Arsenal have been financially hamstrung for years whilst important investment went into the new stadium and training facilities. Don't confuse that with lack of ambition or trying as you put it.

Arsenal's spending both capex and opex is increasing year on year. I am expecting even higher sums to be spent this Summer , this was the whole point of moving to a new ground. Spurs are following the same path (and fair play to them) but unless you choose the Man City-Chelsea fastrack finance model you should expect more seasons of not winning pots in the short term.

That was supposed to happen this summer, and there was no reason, other than Wenger himself, that it didn't!

 

[BristolMike]

Arsene doesn't seem to be able to see the oblivious flaws in your squad. I don't think it's a lack of investment or a lack of ambition, more so a man who's so short sighted and arrogant he thinks he knows best. He seems to have lost the ability to pick. A player in the transfer market. Other than Sanchez who's actually improved the side dramatically?

 

[BristolMike]

That was supposed to happen this summer, and there was no reason, other than Wenger himself, that it didn't!

Arsenal did spend a lot of money in the transfer window this year, they just didn't spend it very well. They must have spent £80-90m

 

[Hobbit]

Surely it's going on to win the title - that's the next level and previous seasons can help paint a picture - is it just going to be a couple of good season for Spurs then and then back to a 6th to 10th team ? Are they going to be Year on Year challengers to the title and win it every now and then ?

Previous seasons include players that aren't there, managers that aren't there, players who were immature and players who were over the hill. The badge is the same and, as you say, it will be about the club's intentions going forward. To a large extent the past becomes irrelevant if a club changes its operating model, as Chelsea and City have.

Top 4, akin to Arsenal of old, is pretty much as good as you'll get domestically apart from a title. Do a few seasons of that and you're a top club. Win a CL as well and that is a breakthrough at an international level.

As for the EPL of today, there's only two top clubs in my eyes, Chelsea and City. The rest are either on the wane, Arsenal and Utd, or becoming interesting, Spurs and Liverpool.

 

[sawtooth]

Arsenal did spend a lot of money in the transfer window this year, they just didn't spend it very well. They must have spent £80-90m

Yes but it's increasingly difficult to compete for the best players (and keeping what you already have). It seems like every player we are interested in so are the Chelsea's, Uniteds and Cities ,. quite confident that Greizmann, Lacazette, Mbappe , etc will move this year but it won't be to us.