Handicaps

[Macster]

Homer's post about HTL has certainly ruffled a few feathers on here, but why I dont know ......

In my opinion, and indeed experience, everyone's Handicap is surely a measure of YOUR ABSOLUTE SUNDAY BEST ability to score under Medal play conditions ??
I rarely play to mine in Medals, and hence why its always a cycle of sudden drops when that storming round appears, and gradual 0.1's for the majority of the time.
I'm off 9.6, and can easily play well under that on a good day, (see my other post about 8 straight Pars yesterday), but I dont consider myself a Bandit in any way, and no way should HTL.
You have to do it in Strokeplay/Medal conditions, with the Card in your hand, when you KNOW it matters, and with no second chances.
Its as simple as that.

Pairs Comps are a breeze in comparison, as is Matchpay, as we all know. Doesnt matter if you blow out, nothings lost. BUT stick that ball OB in Medals and your Card's wrecked, and that kind of pressure messes with your head.

Surely its as simple as that ?

 

[USER1999]

That's my view too.

 

[freddielong]

I agree with that but its when to get 21 handicapers shooting 4 over, that is when the system has failed. No one should be able to shoot more than 8 less than there handicap, if they can then its not a real handicap.

 

[CannyFifer]

I agree, even with my limited experience of comps.
edit - I shot 3 under mine at the weekend but the winner shot 8 under his, he's not a bandit, just had a great round and has been cut accordingly.

 

[bigslice]

yep mee to. i just go out and do what everyone else is trying to do. im trying to birdie every hole! think about it, the perfect round. land on the green and single put. IMO. its not going to happen soon but i still go out and think like that. perhaps my views will change if ever get into single figures.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I agree with that but its when to get 21 handicapers shooting 4 over, that is when the system has failed. No one should be able to shoot more than 8 less than there handicap, if they can then its not a real handicap.

I agree with what most are saying on here but not sure how you quantify the fact that anything less than 8 over is a sign of an incorrect handicapper. We had a guy in a 36 hole medal come in with a nett 57 in a 36 holer. Everyone assumed he had to just get round to win. In the end I'm not sure he broke 100 and only finished ahead by a few. In the morning according to the figures he's the biggest bandit since Butch Cassidy and yet by the 36th hole he can't get anywhere near his handicap.

Everyone will have a great round at some point. It is part of the golfs make up and why we keep coming back. If that round corresponds to a competition then what can you do. It doesn't mean that the other 51 weeks a year where there is 0.1 back here and the odd 0.4 or 0.3 back the other way that his handicap is suddenly wrong

 

[HawkeyeMS]

That's the way it should be but in cases such as HTL is going through and I spent the last 3 years going through you're absolute Sunday best isn't necessarily your best.

All the time pairs and matchplay are played off the Medal H'Cap, there is going to be cases like this. The handicap system doesn't take into account the most important 80% of golf - your head. There's no way it can, there's nothing that can be done about it.

It's just a shame that there are real bandits out there making everyone suspicious of anyone who has a good round.

 

[Macster]

In all honesty, we all know those that are True Bandits, havent played in Medals for years, - in fact, actively avoid it, and turn up solely to steal the money or prizes.

 

[freddielong]

I agree with that but its when to get 21 handicapers shooting 4 over, that is when the system has failed. No one should be able to shoot more than 8 less than there handicap, if they can then its not a real handicap.

I agree with what most are saying on here but not sure how you quantify the fact that anything less than 8 over is a sign of an incorrect handicapper. We had a guy in a 36 hole medal come in with a nett 57 in a 36 holer. Everyone assumed he had to just get round to win. In the end I'm not sure he broke 100 and only finished ahead by a few. In the morning according to the figures he's the biggest bandit since Butch Cassidy and yet by the 36th hole he can't get anywhere near his handicap.

Everyone will have a great round at some point. It is part of the golfs make up and why we keep coming back. If that round corresponds to a competition then what can you do. It doesn't mean that the other 51 weeks a year where there is 0.1 back here and the odd 0.4 or 0.3 back the other way that his handicap is suddenly wrong

I just plucked a number out of the air but there has to be a point where if the system is working it shouldn't be able to happen, yes everyone can play out of there skin sometimes but can you really shoot 96 every other week and all of a sudden pull out a 74 if the system is working.

Perhaps all medals should be on half allowance ?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I agree to a point. Funnily enough the H/cap secretary suggested to the captain that all our four ball better balls should be played on combined scores off full handicap and thus become a qualifier. The captain was overly endeared and said that most members like the freedom of a better ball format as its more relaxed etc. I agree with him and the 3/4 handicap per person makes it fairer.

Ultimately there is no right or wrong answer. I do think a regular guy playing off mid 90's is capable of having that one round. Otherwise we'd never go out again if we all thought we'd be playing to the same standard we usually do. If someone has that one day then fair play. They get cut anyway so the chances of lightening striking are slim. It is the guy that no-one sees for 6 months that rolls up for a big event, takes the prize and disappears that I think most people have the issue with

 

[Fyldewhite]

I agree. Our course is par 70 and I think I had 3 scores in the red up until August last year (nothing spectacular - maybe a 68 and two 69's). Found my handicap had gone up from 5.2 to 6.7 in the same period. Then for no apparent reason I shot 69 gross in the second round of our Captain's final after a 78 nett 71 in the morning round. Found myself back to 5 very quickly and this is my usual pattern too....nothing for ages then a really good round out of the blue.

Also, I totally disagree with the notion that low handicappers can't win at Stableford. We have a stableford league all summer with best 5 scores counting and I came second the other year including my best ever round of 68 (43 points) and a 4 man won the comp. We can all have a day out. Our club champ shot 64 gross last year in one comp (off Scr) but clearly not a bandit.

 

[sev112]

Yeah, know what everyone means

What gets me is that the high handicappers win all the socials with the good prizes, and the knockout competitions, the weekly roll-ups, yet there is no formal way that their handicaps can get adjusted from those competitions so they keep winning.

We also have 6 months of the year when we play our medals as Stableford. I find that hard. I think all medals shoudl be medals. i need to see high handicaps running up double figures while i knock out boring pars.

too many competitions giving the higher handicaps the advantage. i say make Stableford comps off 3/4 as well, if not 1/2 !

 

[kid2]

Yeah, know what everyone means

What gets me is that the high handicappers win all the socials with the good prizes, and the knockout competitions, the weekly roll-ups, yet there is no formal way that their handicaps can get adjusted from those competitions so they keep winning.

We also have 6 months of the year when we play our medals as Stableford. I find that hard. I think all medals shoudl be medals. i need to see high handicaps running up double figures while i knock out boring pars.

too many competitions giving the higher handicaps the advantage. i say make Stableford comps off 3/4 as well, if not 1/2 !

You see this is what annoys the living S**t out of me....
Im off of 19(a high handicapper) and on a good day can play way below this maybe to a 12 or a 13....But there as rare as golden eggs......
Im not a bandit by any means but with the way some are talking on here im being labelled as one...
I enter as many singles and stroke play comps as i can but i wont always play well...Add to that the fact that our course is still a little soft and the ball is still picking up mud so there's local rules in saying that its clean and plays on fairways and play as you lie everywhere else(iv never understood this rule)How can you have a handicap cut when your handling the ball?
I dont enter match play as i dont yet have the confidence or the consistency in my game for it yet.....
So if i roll up on sunday coming for instance and play well below my handicap and walk away with top honours am i to be labelled as a bandit also.....
I think the one point that everyone is missing here is you have to start off somewhere and at some stage everyone was high but DONT tar us all with the same brush when there are genuine reasons for being high and genuine players out there.

 

[Yerman]

If you play golf to win prizes then get on the tour and stop whining and take your ego with you. If you play for your own enjoyment then what does it matter what other players handicap is, the basic game is you against the course, the targets and goals should be personal as is the enjoyment. Peace and love, peace and love.

 

[Robobum]

In my experience the only ones that put the word bandit out there are other players in the same sort of handicap group.

I've been called a bandit plenty of times whilst on the way down but never by any of the low players that i was striving to be. The reason being that we were competing for different things, me to win the net prizes and them to take the gross.

Whether the term was meant as a derogatory towards me at the time was of no interest as it was one of the handicap stages you have to go through to reach your goal of scratch (if that's what it is).

Similarly now that I am one of those in the lower range i have no interest in someone shooting net 56 in one of the medals because they aren't in my division so are playing for a different prize anyway.

 

[kid2]

If you play golf to win prizes then get on the tour and stop whining and take your ego with you. If you play for your own enjoyment then what does it matter what other players handicap is, the basic game is you against the course, the targets and goals should be personal as is the enjoyment. Peace and love, peace and love.

I think what matters here is that if your paying money to enter a competition and you have these so called "bandits" in them their effectively putting there hand in your pocket and taking that money whether it be in the form of vouchers money or crystal whatever......Now tell me that you'd actually enjoy someone doing that.

 

[rickg]

There's a couple of potential solutions here. Firstly, whatever you shoot below your handicap should become your new handicap, eg playing off 19 if you shoot a 12 over, then your new handicap is 12. Why not?....you've proved you can play to 12, and we're told time and again that were only supposed to play to our handicaps 3 times a year.

The other solution would be to have an additional cut over and above what the system cuts you if you score a certain score below your handicap. This could be linked to the handicap categories Eg 19.0 handicapper(Cat 3) shoots a 12 over (7 better than h/c), so he gets cut the normal 7 x 0.3 (2.1) plus an extra 3 for being more than 2 x better than his category......... total 5.1 cut to 13.9.

A cat 4 28 H/C shoots an 18 over (10 better than h/c) he gets cut 10 x 0.4 = 4, plus an additional 4 for being 2 x better than his category. total cut 8 to 20.

Same for Cat 2 but only an additional 2 shot cut over and above anything better than 4 better than H/C.

Cat 1 players would be exempt as there shouldn't be too many bandits in this Cat.

At least now if a real bandit had " the round of his life". he'd only do it the once!!

Puts helmet on and prepares for incoming!!

 

[Whereditgo]

Puts helmet on and prepares for incoming!!

Actually I like this, speaking as one who is pretty fed up of the chuntering by certain members of the club. My sole aim is to reduce my handicap, the problem is that I am equally as likely to shoot 10 over as 10 under my handicap at the moment, both have happened in medals this year - unfortunately the 10 under was non qualifying (and I did speak to the handicap secretary about getting a cut anyway).

The point being I would much rather have a handicap that I struggle to play to and get a few 0.1's back followed by a small cut when I do play a blinder, than face the so called banter every competition weekend.

Because trust me it's very, very tedious!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Am I right in thinking that way back when, under the old, old handicapping rules this happened to a degree and that you got cut x for playing under your handicap and then an additional x for winning. I might be wrong as I'm taling mid 80's and can't really remember the old system and its vagaries.

It seems like a plan though. Maybe cut as per the current rules and then a another 1 for winning. Maybe a cut for winning anyway even if you only match par.

 

[RGDave]

In my opinion, and indeed experience, everyone's Handicap is surely a measure of YOUR ABSOLUTE SUNDAY BEST ability to score under Medal play conditions ??

Surely its as simple as that ?

Not for me. Until we have a slope system or an SSS/CSS based on the reality of a handicapped player playing on their home course, then handicaps are always going to be a little out. Not by a lot, I hasten to add.

My best around my course in a medal is 79 (+9) and for that I didn't get cut. I was off 11 at the time. 79 IS my Absolute Sunday Best on MY COURSE. My A.S.B. (medal) on a different course might well be less, maybe by 2 or 3 shots.....

I don't actually have the answer....but I do know that there is some crazy stuff on my course which makes playing to get cut in a medal is more or less impossible.