Handicap rule 19

[BrummieFred]

I am quoting from recently purchased CONGU 2012-15 book.

The OP had a handicap reduction of 3*0.3 plus an additional 1 full shot under Clause 19 Stableford Adjustment applicable to ALL stroke play competitions, home or away, and nothing to do with General Play. This would, as has been pointed out earlier, take considerably longer to take effect, but it would appear that Clause 19 should be applied to ALL Stroke Play Qualifying Scores.

 

[williamalex1]

Cheers pal, I knew somebody would beat me and to be honest I'm not too bothered its good to see my hcap tumble though.

well done thats the spirt the game should be played

 

[Foxholer]

I am quoting from recently purchased CONGU 2012-15 book.

The OP had a handicap reduction of 3*0.3 plus an additional 1 full shot under Clause 19 Stableford Adjustment applicable to ALL stroke play competitions, home or away, and nothing to do with General Play. This would, as has been pointed out earlier, take considerably longer to take effect, but it would appear that Clause 19 should be applied to ALL Stroke Play Qualifying Scores.

No. You are wrong!

Clause 19.2 states that '....reductions of less than 1 stroke shall be made...'. There is no NOT in that clause. You have 'added' one between 'of' and 'less'.


Read it here - page 36

 

[Foxholer]

Well... here! http://www.englandgolf.org/e-brochure/index.html

 

[rosecott]

I am quoting from recently purchased CONGU 2012-15 book.

The OP had a handicap reduction of 3*0.3 plus an additional 1 full shot under Clause 19 Stableford Adjustment applicable to ALL stroke play competitions, home or away, and nothing to do with General Play. This would, as has been pointed out earlier, take considerably longer to take effect, but it would appear that Clause 19 should be applied to ALL Stroke Play Qualifying Scores.

I think you have misunderstood Stableford Adjustment. If the OP's score was 3 better than CSS, this would mean a reduction of 3 x 0.3 (Cat 3). If the competition had been a Strokeplay Medal and he had a Stableford Adjustment of 1 due to a very high score on one hole, then - for handicap purposes only - his score would 4 better than CSS, giving a reduction of 4 x 0.3.
As a Cat 3 player he could not have a further reduction of 1.0 from Stableford Adjustment as his reductions are in multiples of 0.3.
Stableford Adjustment applies only to Strokeplay Medal competitions.

 

[moogie]

I believe there is still a club in my area, that still gives every cat2 cat3 Winner a full 1.0 reduction for winning a comp
It certainly did last season, and the season before, when 2 of my mates Won a trophy comp
Their wins werent on the back of a 3 or 4 game streak either
I certainly dont agree with it, but what can u do............

 

[duncan mackie]

Stableford Adjustment applies only to Strokeplay Medal competitions.

indeed - a stableford points score is already stableford adjusted! :cheers:

 

[rosecott]

sadly, whilst being explicit about the action the word 'should' remains in the book.

the committee should not apply a formulae to the winners of club match play events such as reducing their handicaps by 2 shots, or a similar wording.

should being defined within the rules as a recomendation.

I continue to see such constructions as a fundamental weakness in the system; even more surprising from a board that states the biggest weakness in the system is the difference in approaches taken by committees!

It might be an idea to make the County Unions responsible for conducting an annual audit of clubs' use of Clause 23 with clubs submitting a report of all Clause 23 reductions together with a reason for each reduction/increase.

 

[duncan mackie]

It might be an idea to make the County Unions responsible for conducting an annual audit of clubs' use of Clause 23 with clubs submitting a report of all Clause 23 reductions together with a reason for each reduction/increase.

I think it would be an excellent idea in terms of the union gaining a wider understanding of the application of it's system. Knowing the difficulty of collecting and useing data it might be best to start with a wider set of options within the systems to record more information actually on the handicap record itself? The alternative being a sample based paper approach.

 

[bobmac]

clubs submitting a report of all Clause 23 reductions together with a reason for each reduction/increase.

So, let me get this straight.
Joe Bloggs walks into the h/cap sec office and asks to be cut.
The sec cant do it alone, he has to take the cards and verbal evidence and
put it to a committee of at least 2 other members and in future will have to write a report to the county explaining why Joe was cut and by how much.
More paperwork for the h/cap sec.
More reason NOT to cut someone.

Joe...can I be chopped, people are calling me names
Sec...No, too much paperwork. Can't be bothered

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Thanks for the replies fellas but I still don't understand what criteria they've used to cut me!

 

[bobmac]

Thanks for the replies fellas but I still don't understand what criteria they've used to cut me!

If you were cut by exactly 1 shot more than you were expecting, I suspect it's a general play cut.
Best bet is to go and see your h/cap sec or give him a ring. He'll be able to tell you why

 

[rosecott]

Thanks for the replies fellas but I still don't understand what criteria they've used to cut me!

Back to the word "should" again.

The player should be notified in writing (or other agreed form of communication) of any General Play reduction.

 

[rosecott]

Joe Bloggs walks into the h/cap sec office and asks to be cut

I feel a new thread coming on.

I wonder how many handicap committees act on such requests rather than making a judgement on all the evidence available to the committee?

 

[bobmac]

I wonder how many handicap committees act on such requests rather than making a judgement on all the evidence available to the committee?

They're not trying to fix the ozone layer or achieve world peace here, it's just a handicap cut.
Does it need a committee and a letter of explananation to the county to do that?
Now wonder people get away with h/cps too high.

 

[rosecott]

They're not trying to fix the ozone layer or achieve world peace here, it's just a handicap cut.

Back to the old, old argument. Just speak nicely to the Handicap Secretary and you can have a "trophy" or "vanity" handicap without doing the necessary to earn it. That's no way to run a handicap system.

Excuse the smiley - too rude, but it's too hot to find a more refined one.

 

[bobmac]

Back to the old, old argument. Just speak nicely to the Handicap Secretary and you can have a "trophy" or "vanity" handicap without doing the necessary to earn it.

And what if he has earned it? He's had lessons and worked hard over the winter and in his first few bounce games, hes scored in the 42-44 region.
He doesnt want to play in his first comp of the season as a bandit and after all, he knows his game better than any h/cap sec or committee ever will.

That's no way to run a handicap system.

Absolutely. Why believe the word of the player himself who, lets not forget, wants to get his handicap DOWN.

And even if it is a trophy handicap...so what. Better too low than too high.

The whole point isn't whether Joe gets cut or not, the point is he wants to get chopped and can't so those who don't want to get chopped are safe and sound.
That is my arguement.
People out there are cheating and Congu are making it easy for them to do so.
Just my opinion of course.

 

[rosecott]

And even if it is a trophy handicap...so what.

Why not ask the single figure handicappers on the forum if they would be happy if Joe went to the Handicap Sec. and said "I think I should be off 9" - request granted. They might be a little miffed at all the effort they have put in to reach that coveted level.

 

[Imurg]

Personally, if Joe wants to play off 9 but is really a 13 - bring it on!
He's not going to win much......

I can't see a problem with "vanity" handicaps as you call them. They are the only ones to suffer.
It's the ones who should be off 9 but are playing off 13 tht are the problem....

 

[bobmac]

They might be a little miffed at all the effort they have put in to reach that coveted level.

They'd be more miffed if they met the guy in a knock out and he was off 15