Handicap question

[nickjdavis]

These are from my latest league at Lewisham

you need to get out more mate

Ohh I dont know....I had a wild intimate (sadly short lived) relationship with a girl I met at a bowling alley in Lewisham. Dont remember if she was into statistics mind.

 

[FuzzyDuck]

I used to play weekly in a ten-pin bowling league, all players had an individual handicap, although this was a league only handicap.

 

[Alan Clifford]

The handicap system is wonderful as it allows old men to play golf against younger men. It is also suitable to include women without having separate course and slope ratings - these are just secondary handicap modifiers. Or maybe we should go the way of separate rating for old men?

 

[clubchamp98]

Because the bandits would have nothing to manipulate if they didn’t exist.

 

[jamielaing]

It exists for golf as a necessary leveler because of all the money changing hands as comp fees, open fees, roll up entry fees, side bets etc

No handicap system means this'll all stop because the high guys/gals aren't gonna stump up to play in comps/events/bets against the better players and get trounced week after week (& it's not the actual trouncing that's the problem, its paying extra for the privilege)

This is life as a cat 1 golfer. No chance of winning anything.

 

[Old Skier]

This is life as a cat 1 golfer. No chance of winning anything.

Bad planning on behalf of comp committees if they don’t organise comps in a way that ALL have opportunities.

 

[rulefan]

This is life as a cat 1 golfer. No chance of winning anything.

How many did you win before WHS? And what was that as a proportion of the no of comps you played?

 

[Swango1980]

I guess then why not have a handicap system in pro golf ? I don’t watch golf but I’m guessing there’s loads of pros who have almost no chance of winning?

I assume this can't be a genuine question? The whole reason elite sports exist is so that fans can see the best players / teams in the word go head to head, and see who can come out on top. Handicaps would remove this. If professional golfers competed with handicaps, then technically we could all compete as professionals. After all, as long as there are not mega low handicap restrictions, we could all have a go. Assuming McIlroy had a handicap of about -8, a 22 handicapper would get a 30 shot head start per day, and 120 shots head start over a 4 round tournament. Imagine a 22 handicapper winning the Masters, then playing off 15 the following week

 

[jamielaing]

How many did you win before WHS? And what was that as a proportion of the no of comps you played?

None. Play every medal I can, normally 20+ a year.

Playing off 3 and nett is -6 every week. Personal best required to be involved unfortunately.

 

[YandaB]

None. Play every medal I can, normally 20+ a year.

Playing off 3 and nett is -6 every week. Personal best required to be involved unfortunately.

How many people enter? How many years have you been doing this for?

 

[jamielaing]

How many people enter? How many years have you been doing this for?

It's well known that this is the case. I don't understand why this subject always leads to people acting like it isn't.

 

[YandaB]

It's well known that this is the case. I don't understand why this subject always leads to people acting like it isn't.

2 simple questions and I only have evidence from my club that things are more evenly balanced: https://forums.golfmonthly.com/thre...-more-level-playing-field.112934/post-2539765 than previoiusly.

Do you have some evidence of something different from your club?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

2 simple questions and I only have evidence from my club that things are more evenly balanced: https://forums.golfmonthly.com/thre...-more-level-playing-field.112934/post-2539765 than previoiusly.

Do you have some evidence of something different from your club?

Over the last two years - no one under the handicap of 5 has won a Handicap event ,

Last year the same 20 plus handicap won all the big Handicap KOs ( didn’t put any cards in outside comps ) , this year he even won a Capts away do with 48 points , didn’t put card in

This year we have someone who is playing off 24 ( was off around 9 before WhS ) - he has won all the KO’s , seems to not do well in medals but picked up a few board comps

We only had two scratch comps - a KO and club champs , we now have a scratch OOM and hoping to bring in scratch prizes in medals etc

 

[YandaB]

Over the last two years - no one under the handicap of 5 has won a Handicap event ,

Last year the same 20 plus handicap won all the big Handicap KOs ( didn’t put any cards in outside comps ) , this year he even won a Capts away do with 48 points , didn’t put card in

This year we have someone who is playing off 24 ( was off around 9 before WhS ) - he has won all the KO’s , seems to not do well in medals but picked up a few board comps

We only had two scratch comps - a KO and club champs , we now have a scratch OOM and hoping to bring in scratch prizes in medals etc

Thanks Phil, I totally accept that this is evidence of them not winning, it's not evidence of it being out of balance though (it might well be).

 

[jamielaing]

I can't see it being anything but out of balance. If the handicap system was working properly there would be at least some dispersion that includes Cat 1 golfers. Club golf is almost all about handicap competition.

 

[SteveW86]

Just looked at our order of merit for the year, to see what could be taken from it, data below for the top 5 in the list

1st place:

• Handicap on 31st March: 4.2, handicap now: 4.5
• 73 cards entered over the course of the year

2nd place:

• Handicap on 31st March: 31.8, handicap now: 16.5
• 34 cards entered over the year

3rd place:

• Handicap on 31st March: 10.8, handicap now: 9.0
• 20 cards entered over the year

4th place:

• Handicap on 31st March: 4.9, handicap now 5.2
• 16 cards entered over the year

5th place:

• Handicap 31st March 16.0, handicap now 11.8
• 19 cards entered over the year

The order of merit is only done from our Sunday morning comps, so not all of the winners 73 cards will be in there, but it shows he plays a lot of golf. He is also the 8th lowest handicap at the club, but I would say of regular Sunday players he isnt the 2nd lowest.

I'm not sure a definitive answer can be made from the above, but I would agree that handicap golf favours those with a higher handicap.

Even off 11.8 I think there should be a best gross prize each week.

 

[Swango1980]

Just looked at our order of merit for the year, to see what could be taken from it, data below for the top 5 in the list

1st place:

• Handicap on 31st March: 4.2, handicap now: 4.5
• 73 cards entered over the course of the year

2nd place:

• Handicap on 31st March: 31.8, handicap now: 16.5
• 34 cards entered over the year

3rd place:

• Handicap on 31st March: 10.8, handicap now: 9.0
• 20 cards entered over the year

4th place:

• Handicap on 31st March: 4.9, handicap now 5.2
• 16 cards entered over the year

5th place:

• Handicap 31st March 16.0, handicap now 11.8
• 19 cards entered over the year

The order of merit is only done from our Sunday morning comps, so not all of the winners 73 cards will be in there, but it shows he plays a lot of golf. He is also the 8th lowest handicap at the club, but I would say of regular Sunday players he isnt the 2nd lowest.

I'm not sure a definitive answer can be made from the above, but I would agree that handicap golf favours those with a higher handicap.

Even off 11.8 I think there should be a best gross prize each week.

I'm guessing the guy who played off an Index of 31.8, and is now 16.5, had some lovely scores at the start of the season

 

[IanM]

It's well known that this is the case. I don't understand why this subject always leads to people acting like it isn't.

Because you can't question the "system!"

Does your club run stuff in divisions? We have everything serious off scratch! (with net prices and divisions!)

Our course has been frozen solid all week, you can't play sensible golf on it. BUT. tomorrow will still be a qualifier because the course is measured.

Speaks volumes about the direction of travel

 

[SteveW86]

I'm guessing the guy who played off an Index of 31.8, and is now 16.5, had some lovely scores at the start of the season

I wouldnt say there were any runaway scores, just a good few in a row of around 40. He was down to 22 by May, then a gradual decrease since then. No issues with him though, hes a youngish lad who was new to the game, so you would expect to see what he has done.

 

[Swango1980]

Because you can't question the "system!"

Does your club run stuff in divisions? We have everything serious off scratch! (with net prices and divisions!)

Our course has been frozen solid all week, you can't play sensible golf on it. BUT. tomorrow will still be a qualifier because the course is measured.

Speaks volumes about the direction of travel

On the plus side, if any high handicapper gets 50 points, they'll get a cut. I used to find winter incredibly frustrating about a decade ago. The club only ran non-qualifiers, and so if a player had a nice high handicap going into the winter season, and started playing well, they'd do very well throughout the winter. Usually found comps dominated by 3 or 4 higher handicappers, who would get something like 48 points and never get cut.