Handicap query

[kid2]

Just wondering about something thats been on my mind the past few months.....Im currently playing off 20 and last night i went through my last 12 cards for the rounds iv played.....My scores have never passed 88 shots per round and there off the white tees. 8 of those cards were between 82,83...Take into account now that they are not competition rounds but they are off competition tees..Im just wondering that if i handed in three cards now what would my handicap be...Average would do as its only an inquisitive mind that wants to know.......
Many thanks

 

[rickg]

Just wondering about something thats been on my mind the past few months.....Im currently playing off 20 and last night i went through my last 12 cards for the rounds iv played.....My scores have never passed 88 shots per round and there off the white tees. 8 of those cards were between 82,83...Take into account now that they are not competition rounds but they are off competition tees..Im just wondering that if i handed in three cards now what would my handicap be...Average would do as its only an inquisitive mind that wants to know.......
Many thanks

You should hand in all of the cards (if they have been signed by yourself and a marker). The handicap secretary can adjust your handicap either during the annual review, or even before then if it is clear that a player is playing considerably better than their handicap, which clearly you are...8 cards around the 82/83 mark would indicate a handicap of around 10-12 subject to the course par/SSS

 

[kid2]

Hi Rick...
I only thought that your handicap was measured in competition rounds.....I never actually thought that they take into account social rounds as well thats mainly why i never put them in....
The last 8 of the 12 havent been in the low 80's there kind of mixed and matched over probably 3-4 months but some of them have been in lift clean and place conditions also...Would this also have a bearing on the outcome?

 

[rickg]

Qualifying competitions can still be played under winter rules as long as the course isn't shortened by more than 100 yds, so I don't see why a general play card can't be submitted under the same conditions.

In saying all this, there is a move away from using general play cards to adjust handicaps if a player has regularly played in Qualifiers as it is thought that the system should take care of the handicaps. However, in your case, it does appear that you are playing considerably lower than your handicap quite regularly. The best thing to do would be to approach the handicap committee and ask for their guidance given your situation.

 

[kid2]

I will do that Rick thanks for the information.

 

[HRC99]

I had a similar issue and spoke to the Vice Captain who I happened to be playing with and his advice (echoed by others whose opinion I sought) was not to worry about it during the winter as my handicap will come down soon enough once the season starts.

 

[Ethan]

I agree that these cards can be handed in and counted towards general play, and would likely result in a reduction, but would you not be better to wait for the competitions to start in spring and let your handicap reduction be accompanied by the receipt of some silverware?

 

[Parmo]

Qualifying competitions can still be played under winter rules as long as the course isn't shortened by more than 100 yds, so I don't see why a general play card can't be submitted under the same conditions.

I think its because when you are having a knock around with your mates there is no pressure, in comps there is that added pressure. I usually play around my handicap to a Scratch of 65 par 70, but in a friendly no pressure match I can play to about 15 handicap, I did shoot a net 57 49 pointer off 21 handicap and only got cut by 2 shots! I really do think there is a big difference to playing a friendly and competitive golf.

I prefer the UK handicap system to the other system of entering every card you play.

 

[bobmac]

I agree that these cards can be handed in and counted towards general play, and would likely result in a reduction, but would you not be better to wait for the competitions to start in spring and let your handicap reduction be accompanied by the receipt of some silverware?

I'm sorry, I couldn't disagree more.
That means Kid would be entering the competition with a handicap he knows is too high.
In other words
"His exact Handicap does not reflect his current playing ability".
I wouldn't be happy entering a comp knowing that someone else has entered with a wrong handicap.

Kid, If I were you I'd hand in the cards now. If you're chopped for the new season then fair enough. If they dont chop you at least you tried.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

I agree that these cards can be handed in and counted towards general play, and would likely result in a reduction, but would you not be better to wait for the competitions to start in spring and let your handicap reduction be accompanied by the receipt of some silverware?

But if you are knowingly playing better than your current handicap and recent cards peove this and you havn't handed them in, then you are opening yourself up to cries of "BANDIT"

any silverware will have been ill gotten and will lose its gloss, also your reputation at the club may suffer.

I would urge you to put the cards in, and go with whatever the Handicap Committee decide.

In this game you have to be whiter than white

 

[Ethan]

I agree that these cards can be handed in and counted towards general play, and would likely result in a reduction, but would you not be better to wait for the competitions to start in spring and let your handicap reduction be accompanied by the receipt of some silverware?

But if you are knowingly playing better than your current handicap and recent cards peove this and you havn't handed them in, then you are opening yourself up to cries of "BANDIT"

any silverware will have been ill gotten and will lose its gloss, also your reputation at the club may suffer.

I would urge you to put the cards in, and go with whatever the Handicap Committee decide.

In this game you have to be whiter than white

Rubbish. Many players play better in non-comps and providing you don't deliberately play badly to drive your handicap up, no foul.

The rules currently allow for supplementary (non-comp) cards for players who do not play enough comps, but apart from that, there is neither a requirement nor an expectation that you should voluntarily submit general play cards.

 

[CrapHacker]

I agree that these cards can be handed in and counted towards general play, and would likely result in a reduction, but would you not be better to wait for the competitions to start in spring and let your handicap reduction be accompanied by the receipt of some silverware?

But if you are knowingly playing better than your current handicap and recent cards peove this and you havn't handed them in, then you are opening yourself up to cries of "BANDIT"

any silverware will have been ill gotten and will lose its gloss, also your reputation at the club may suffer.

I would urge you to put the cards in, and go with whatever the Handicap Committee decide.

In this game you have to be whiter than white

Rubbish. Many players play better in non-comps and providing you don't deliberately play badly to drive your handicap up, no foul.

The rules currently allow for supplementary (non-comp) cards for players who do not play enough comps, but apart from that, there is neither a requirement nor an expectation that you should voluntarily submit general play cards.

Makes sense to me.

Another question. 'Knowingly playing better than your handicap'. Define it please. How many rounds does it take before it is the 'norm' rather than just another streaky run of jammy form ?

If I go out next week and shoot an 85, whereas my previous 6 rounds were in the 90s, just because I've been putting in the practise hours, does that make me a bandit ?

Because then if I drop back to my normal practise regime ( ie nothing ) I'll soon deteriorate back to struggling to get within an mile of my handicap.

Take last year. Please, it was awful. I expected to improve over the year, and drop from 18 to 16 or even better. But like I've said elsewhere, I didn't once play better than my handicap.

So this year I'm buying more suitable clubs, practising, listening to my ( golfing ) betters and practising again. All with the intention of being confidant enough to play WH without embarrasing myself.

I wont get the chance to play much other than hopefully a couple of rounds with JUok, Smiffy, Golfmmad, and maybe a couple of other Sussex guys, where scoring is less important than the timing of your next insult. So there wont be any 'competitive' golf at all, and only a couple of complete rounds with a few 9 holers thrown in for practise.

If I do enough to actually hit a decent score at WH,does that make me a cheating bandit ?

 

[bobmac]

IMHO, If you can play to your handicap on a normal day its too high.
In the olden days, you weren't expected to play to your handicap any more than 2-3 times a year.
Nowadays, it should reflect your playing ability. Whatever that means.
In this instance kid 2 is off 20. He has 12 cards off the white tees, the worst being 88 which is playing off 16.
He has 8 cards of 82-83 which is playing off 10-11.
I think that in this case, a 20 handicap doesn't reflect his playing ability.

 

[Ethan]

IMHO, If you can play to your handicap on a normal day its too high.
In the olden days, you weren't expected to play to your handicap any more than 2-3 times a year.
Nowadays, it should reflect your playing ability. Whatever that means.
In this instance kid 2 is off 20. He has 12 cards off the white tees, the worst being 88 which is playing off 16.
He has 8 cards of 82-83 which is playing off 10-11.
I think that in this case, a 20 handicap doesn't reflect his playing ability.

Maybe it doesn't reflect his playing ability in a non comp. With due respect to kid, I have played with plenty of people who shoot 98 then say they never score more than 86 during the week.

First comp should see a nice reduction if I am wrong.

 

[golfcitydweller]

don`t think u have to hand in `social` cards under congu rules ! and i hope if u du these cards have not included `gimmes` as most `social` rounds du ...i`d have a word with the h`cap convener and ask his thoughts on the matter and go from there ...ya shark !!

 

[rickg]

IMHO, If you can play to your handicap on a normal day its too high.
In the olden days, you weren't expected to play to your handicap any more than 2-3 times a year.
Nowadays, it should reflect your playing ability. Whatever that means.
In this instance kid 2 is off 20. He has 12 cards off the white tees, the worst being 88 which is playing off 16.
He has 8 cards of 82-83 which is playing off 10-11.
I think that in this case, a 20 handicap doesn't reflect his playing ability.

Maybe it doesn't reflect his playing ability in a non comp. With due respect to kid, I have played with plenty of people who shoot 98 then say they never score more than 86 during the week.

First comp should see a nice reduction if I am wrong.

I think if we were only talking about 1 or 2 shots, then I'd be inclined to agree, but we are talking potentially playing up to 10 shots different to handicap. Even if we are generous, and allowing for non competition relaxed scoring, it's got to be at least 5 shots. That's a big difference in anyone's book.
I don't think kid2 has anything to lose by approaching the comittee and getting their views.

If they decide not to cut him and he wins his first comp by a country mile, at least he will have done as much as he could and will have a clear conscience. Clearly at the moment it is playing on his mind and I think we need to take that into consideration.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

We need a definition as to whether a handicap is in respect of a persons potential best score or average play.

About Golf dot com says this "Handicaps are meant to represent a golfer's potential rather than simply be an average of a golfer's scores"

Yes I know it is American but it is an important point
In my mind, if you normally hit 95, but then you play a blinder and card 85, then your handicap should be adjusted accordingly as you have shown the potential to score at that level.

If you then go back to hitting 95 regularly, then the 0.1's will creep the handicap upwards.

Ok some clubs will only count handicap revisions during comps, ok fair enough.

BUT the over riding point is that if you have an official handicap and you are regularly playing under that handicap, you should inform the handicap committee before you enter a competition, otherwise it is unfair.

If the committee say that it is ok for you to enter the comp with your old handicap, then that is up to them, atleast you will have done the decent thing which is what it is all about.

Fragger ( A Saint among men)

 

[Faldo_Fan]

At our club casual play cards don't count towards your handicap even if they have been marked and signed by someone else and play was off the medal tees.
I gave up handing them in, in the end! And just put comp cards in.

 

[viscount17]

It's simply really, your initial handicap was calculated on your best score with any horrors reduced to a double, therefore representing your potential not your actual.

but if clubs will adjust only on comp scores it's difficult enough to maintain an accurate handicap.

 

[Bigfoot]

IMHO, If you can play to your handicap on a normal day its too high.

When I say this to people who complain that they are not playing to their handicap so won't enter a competition, they think I am joking !!