Handicap query

[USER1999]

I play to my h/cap more than not. I don't think it is wrong. I put in about 12 cards a year. I would never put casual cards in. If you don't put the bad ones in, why put the good ones in. Unless you put them all in, that is bonkers, as you would only ever go down.

To me, you should play under your h/cap about 25% of the time, Buffer 25%, and score junk 50%. But that is off the medal tees, tough pin placement, and the pressure of having a card in your hand.

Bung the tees forward, have a laugh, a few gimmes, easy pins, and you should rip it to bits. There is no standard scratch in a casual game either.

 

[TRS30]

Was reading this thread with some interest and could see both arguments. However I think Murph is right in his last paragraph that you need a CSS to really assess the card someone hands in.

 

[RGDave]

Hmmm. An interesting thread.

If I go round 7 or 8 over in non-comp games, I keep it under my hat.

If you've had some 82s and 83s (par 70-something?) that's tidy play for a 20 h'cap of course.

However, it's not the way to get your h'cap down. Do it in a comp, prove you can play to 12 or whatever and enjoy the descent and the prizes.

- - -

f.w.i.w. IF you went round in 82 with no triples work out what that is over the SSS of the tee used. 82 on SSS 70 would be a 12 h'cap......

 

[HomerJSimpson]

My club won't act on casual play cards. However surely if the OP is playing well and shoots a low score in a competition even if he wins it the subsequent handicap cut will be pretty severe and so will take care of the situation anyway.

 

[kid2]

I agree that these cards can be handed in and counted towards general play, and would likely result in a reduction, but would you not be better to wait for the competitions to start in spring and let your handicap reduction be accompanied by the receipt of some silverware?

I'm sorry, I couldn't disagree more.
That means Kid would be entering the competition with a handicap he knows is too high.
In other words
"His exact Handicap does not reflect his current playing ability".
I wouldn't be happy entering a comp knowing that someone else has entered with a wrong handicap.

Kid, If I were you I'd hand in the cards now. If you're chopped for the new season then fair enough. If they dont chop you at least you tried.

Evening Bob...I too agree with you ......This all came about with the post that i was reading on the forum last night about being a Bandit or Cheat.....I am neither and the last thing i want is to be labelled as one thats why i would like to get this cleared up.....I always knew i was better than my handicap and lots of people have said it to me which is embarrassing when they see how you play the game ...Now dont get me wrong im no tiger woods but i can hold my own......And as iv said that handicap that i got in march last year in winter conditions(soft fairways lift clean and place/bunkerts out of play)also alot of plugged lost balls meaning high strokes started at 21 and i played 1 competition in the 8 months or so since i got it that had me cut 1 shot....My reason for not playing more was the Injury i had to my leg which basically had me in a cast for 12 weeks during the summer months and the rehab afterwards.

 

[didsbury_duffer]

If you are playing in a comp at your course, whether it is a qualifying or a non-qualifying comp, you should ALWAYS put your card in. It is a mandatory element of being a member of a golf club with a Congu handicap. If you do not put the card in, then subject to the decision of the committee, you can actually be suspended.
Congu prefer to let the handicap system calculate your correct handicap from your competition scores over the spring, summer and autumn periods. They are generally not in favour these days of any General Play reductions/increases whatsoever, apart from in four specific circumstances. One of these is where the player does not play in many qualifying competitions, but is clearly playing better than his current handicap in other golf (knockouts, friendlies, away scores).

In view of all this I would suggest that, as the holder of a proper Congu handicap, then you should be bringing your recent cards to the attention of the Handicap Convenor. He can then judge your case upon its individual merits.

 

[kid2]

Im sorry i have 2 replies here one after the other guys but its just the way im reading the thread.....
Im seeing both sides of the same argument here and its good to see.
I have to make it clear so that people have a proper understanding of my character here...
I am in no way a cheat or a bandit and i have serious problems with people that protect there handicaps.
I just dont want to be labelled as one...
On the other hand those 12 cards that i have kept have been in roughly the same conditions that i got my handicap(lift clean and place bunkers out of play and casual water on fairways in places)
So i guess my questiopn now is i have landed in places that the ball has plugged, i did land in the odd bunker that was out of play, and iv had to move over casual water so how can you guage a handicap it you are giving yourself the advantage of better lies for your shots off the tees...(this i dont understand)
Surely your handicap should be measured in normal conditions of play.
Also i ran this by my dad this morning and he said that members dont hand in cards for casual play... Only competitions and that even though you may not win the comps and get cut your handicap can still be cut through whats called general play.....
This is open for debate but what im thinking of doing is handing in 3 cards again when the conditions are appropriate and asking the commitee to review my handicap for the coming season at least that way ill have peace of mind and wont be worried about what anyone is thinking of me.

 

[Ethan]

I agree that these cards can be handed in and counted towards general play, and would likely result in a reduction, but would you not be better to wait for the competitions to start in spring and let your handicap reduction be accompanied by the receipt of some silverware?

I'm sorry, I couldn't disagree more.
That means Kid would be entering the competition with a handicap he knows is too high.
In other words
"His exact Handicap does not reflect his current playing ability".
I wouldn't be happy entering a comp knowing that someone else has entered with a wrong handicap.

Kid, If I were you I'd hand in the cards now. If you're chopped for the new season then fair enough. If they dont chop you at least you tried.

Evening Bob...I too agree with you ......This all came about with the post that i was reading on the forum last night about being a Bandit or Cheat.....I am neither and the last thing i want is to be labelled as one thats why i would like to get this cleared up.....I always knew i was better than my handicap and lots of people have said it to me which is embarrassing when they see how you play the game ...Now dont get me wrong im no tiger woods but i can hold my own......And as iv said that handicap that i got in march last year in winter conditions(soft fairways lift clean and place/bunkerts out of play)also alot of plugged lost balls meaning high strokes started at 21 and i played 1 competition in the 8 months or so since i got it that had me cut 1 shot....My reason for not playing more was the Injury i had to my leg which basically had me in a cast for 12 weeks during the summer months and the rehab afterwards.

Playing well in non-comps does NOT make anyone a bandit or cheat. Massaging your handicaps during part of the season to score better in the big events does.

It is utter nonsense to suggest that club players should hand in every good non-comp card. That does not help achieve a realistic handicap at all and it is not the way the handicap system works. What about the bad non-comp scores? Do you think the Handicap Sec will give you 0.1 back for those? Of course not, so right away this unofficial reporting system is not operating the way the proper handicap system should work - good and bad scores balance out, albeit asymmetrically.

The handicap system here is about comps, and with the exception of supplementary cards as currently allowed, non comp scores should only be considered exceptionally.

 

[RGDave]

What about the bad non-comp scores? Do you think the Handicap Sec will give you 0.1 back for those? Of course not.

I wanted to get my h'cap up (to 13 or 14) when I started (by handing in bad rounds in non-qualifying but "proper" games) and I can confirm that your comments are 100% spot on.

The O.P. didn't strike me as asking for a decrease, more a general observation.

In the land of RGDave, I'd want to see the first 10 cards from a newly h'cap'd player....just to make sure (be it low or high). My best card for h'cap was 14 over CSS and they gave me 11.5. My next 10-15 cards played on Sundays (i.e. not qualifying, but proper club matches) were all roughly 14-18 over SSS for the tees.....I couldn't persuade the sec' to give me 14 after all.....git.

 

[Farneyman]

what im thinking of doing is handing in 3 cards again when the conditions are appropriate and asking the commitee to review my handicap for the coming season at least that way ill have peace of mind and wont be worried about what anyone is thinking of me.

This will happen if you play in any competitions anyway. So dont worry about it and just enjoy watching it fall!

 

[kid2]

what im thinking of doing is handing in 3 cards again when the conditions are appropriate and asking the commitee to review my handicap for the coming season at least that way ill have peace of mind and wont be worried about what anyone is thinking of me.

This will happen if you play in any competitions anyway. So dont worry about it and just enjoy watching it fall!

Thats exactly what my dad has said Farneyman...
I have a comp in the morning hopefully if the fog lifts....The 1st one of 2010 for me so fingers crossed.
Im here at the moment devising a game plan for myself

 

[DCB]

Kid2,

Just forget about all the fuss about being called a bandit. You've only recently got your handicap. Give yourself a year to get it settled down, play more, practice your short game and putting and your handicap will come down naturally.

Play in as many qualifying comps as you can and you will have a true reflection of what you're capable of.

Most of all, don't get too hung up on what other people say about you, it's you thet has to play your game. So get out there and do it.

If you're still a youngster, don't worry, you will improve fairly drastically over a fairly short period of time. All teenagers who take the game seriously seem do that.

Most of all ENJOY yourself.

 

[bobmac]

It seems alot of people are saying don't hand your cards in, play in the comps, win all the prizes for the next 3 months and your handicap will fall.
Would these people also add "but don't do it at my club"
Of course I realise it's nice to play well and win prizes but to what cost.Kid has said that people are already saying his handicap is too high.
What's it going to be like when he wins the first 3 monthly medal and his friends know he hasnt put his cards in.
A fistful of prizes and no-one to play with.
What happens to everyone else who has entered the comp? They have no chance of winning. How would you feel?

The very fact that Kid has even asked the question tells me he already knows what to do.
Hand the cards in, you may not win the next 3 medals but you will be able to hold your head up high and know you've done the right thing.

Just my old fashioned, out of date opinion of course.

 

[CrapHacker]

..Now dont get me wrong im no tiger woods but i can hold my own.......

You see, this is where you're going wrong.

Tiger always has a young lady around to hold his.






Bottom line.

Talk to your club pro, be upfront. Talk to the club sec, or whoever is around. Tell them you want to do the right thing, and follow their advice.

All these guys are saying 'my club does this.....'. Well you don't give a monkies about their club. Do what your club does.

IMO I think you KNOW you are too good, not just know you can play better some of/most of the time. In which case, if they cut you now, you'll still win one or two of the next comps anyway - they won't cut you to 11 or 12 in one foul swoop.

And if they don't, then when the banter starts, you've got your out.

But just imagine if the opposite is true. If you should have mentioned it, but don't, you'll be tainted in th eeyes of the other members. And it takes 2 seconds to get a reputation, but years to get rid of it.

Keep your cards in the car, and speak to as many committee
members as you can whenever you can. It'll also stand you in good stead in the bar etc. You'll always be be known as an honest and upfront geezer.

 

[Ethan]

It seems alot of people are saying don't hand your cards in, play in the comps, win all the prizes for the next 3 months and your handicap will fall.
Would these people also add "but don't do it at my club"
Of course I realise it's nice to play well and win prizes but to what cost.Kid has said that people are already saying his handicap is too high.
What's it going to be like when he wins the first 3 monthly medal and his friends know he hasnt put his cards in.
A fistful of prizes and no-one to play with.
What happens to everyone else who has entered the comp? They have no chance of winning. How would you feel?

The very fact that Kid has even asked the question tells me he already knows what to do.
Hand the cards in, you may not win the next 3 medals but you will be able to hold your head up high and know you've done the right thing.

Just my old fashioned, out of date opinion of course.

Bob, a large number of assumptions there. No disrespect to kid2, but I am willing to bet he DOESN'T win the first three medals of the year. The handicap system is based on competition scores. So put in competition scores.

So suppose this winter kid is playing great, puts in 3 cards, gets handicap down 3 shots for start of new season. Great, all is well in the moral world.

Next winter, though, he plays rubbish. But can't put in any cards, starts the season playing rubbish, gets it back to the proper score by August.

This righteous moral path you propose is asymmetrical, and may be self deceiving. Perhaps the good run now is actually not representative of typical play? I am sure you will agree that players have flashes of great play which disappears as mysteriously as it appears.

 

[CrapHacker]

Perhaps the good run now is actually not representative of typical play?

This is his last 12 cards we're talking about tho'

I agree it could easily be a flash of form. But his worst scores have been a couple of shots better than his current h/c, and his best scores were played to about half his h/c.

So even his worst is more than good enough.

I'd suggest asking the question, coz I'm sure that if they do cut it, it won't be more than 2 shots ( 3 ABSOLUTE max )so he gets the moral high of doing the right thing, the high of getting down to 18, which for many is a benchmark h/c on the way down, and still has knows that if he plays to his BEST in a medal, he'll be scoring 40 - 45 points.

Everyone's a winner.

 

[DCB]

I can see where bobmac is coming from and I can also see where Ethan is coming from. If this were the height of summer and Kid2 was burning it up on a daily basis then I would agree completely with Bobs point of view. However, I am assuming that this run of form has taken place over more recenttimes and as Lid2 himself says
"The last 8 of the 12 havent been in the low 80's there kind of mixed and matched over probably 3-4 months but some of them have been in lift clean and place conditions also...Would this also have a bearing on the outcome?"
and
"and i played 1 competition in the 8 months or so since i got it that had me cut 1 shot"

So he got a handicap at the end of last winter, only played one comp, due to a serious injury, but got cut in that one comp. IMO he has probably improved a little, He could put his cards in and put the responsibility onto the handicap convenor, I agree.


If however he waits until the first full qualifying comp, I really don't think that it will be a case of turning up to lift the prize. Had he been able to play regularly last year, in comps, then his handicap would have been adjusted accordingly, but he was unable to do so.

He's not deliberately avoided playing in comps,he was injured and is now keen to get his handicap cut as he improves tis coming season.

Nt a Bandit iny view.

hope he lets us know how he got on today.

 

[kid2]

Well just to give everybody the heads up i mentioned it to my club pro today and he said that in 99% of cases handicaps are adjusted after competition rounds not during social play....
He said that if im scoring well week in week out even if not winning competitions then i will get cut on general play anyway so ill still loose shots.
I guess ill just battle on as i am for now and enter every comp that comes up...
If i am good enough ill win them if not and im average ill get cut also so all is not lost.

 

[Ethan]

Well just to give everybody the heads up i mentioned it to my club pro today and he said that in 99% of cases handicaps are adjusted after competition rounds not during social play....
He said that if im scoring well week in week out even if not winning competitions then i will get cut on general play anyway so ill still loose shots.
I guess ill just battle on as i am for now and enter every comp that comes up...
If i am good enough ill win them if not and im average ill get cut also so all is not lost.

That is the correct way.

 

[bobmac]

Well just to give everybody the heads up i mentioned it to my club pro today and he said that in 99% of cases handicaps are adjusted after competition rounds not during social play....
He said that if im scoring well week in week out even if not winning competitions then i will get cut on general play anyway so ill still loose shots.
I guess ill just battle on as i am for now and enter every comp that comes up...
If i am good enough ill win them if not and im average ill get cut also so all is not lost.

At least you tried.
I still don't agree but good luck anyway.