Hahahahahahaha - Aimpoint

[Khamelion]

This should be illegal. One of the justifications given for allowing GPS or Laser distance measurement devices is that distance is something that every player can work out without recourse to device measurement i.e. they can pace distance out from yardage makers on or to the side of the fairway. There is absolutely no way that, without a device, I can get a measurement of a slope. So should be banned - if not already banned.

....When back at your home course on the practice green, you can use your phone and an app called 'Clinometer' to find slopes so you can ingrain the feeling.

As ger147 pointed out and as above, use the app when practicing, not when in a comp.

I suppose the final nail in the Aimpoint coffin would be if your handicap went up rather than down after using it........

Now that would depend, my HC has gone up a couple of points, but that has nowt to do with my putting and more because my overall game is rubbish. Break my game down into driving, approach play and putting, you'd see a small improvement in driving, no change whatsoever in 2nd shot/approach play and a big improvement in putting, but putting them altogether the net result is getting some 0.1 lifts.

I think people are cynical because nobody has been able, as far as I can see, to explain how you assess the slope with your feet, or how you know how much to bend your arm. Nor has anyone been able to demonstrate a link between the adoption of Aimpoint and significant improvement in performance.

The fact that the most famous proponents of the method are, Lydia Ko excepted, pretty honking putters, it's easy to see why cynicism abounds.

The easy answer here is go on the course and find out, but the sceptical are not going to do that.

The other answer is to get a level with a digital read out, or download the clinmometer app, get out on to you home course practice green and use either of the aforementioned items and find a 1%, 2%, 3%, 4% and 5% slope, stand side on to that slope, feet shoulder width apart and feel which foot has the most pressure, that foot is the low side and by using the app or level you will get the feeling of how much slope there is. Some people can feel it better in one foot than the other, for me I got better readings when my left side was on the low side, so if you can't feel on say your left, turn around and face the opposite direction, so that the low side is on the right. Repeat that for the 2, 3 4 and 5 percent slopes.

That's the basics, but if you're one of the sceptics there's not a snowballs chance in hell you'll even attempt any of the above and will remain sceptical and unwilling.

 

[SteveJay]

oh god totally agree with this as our handicap is determined if we can read a putting green correctly and not the culmination of number of shots that taken us to get to the green and to hole the ball?

Seriously!!!! 

Yes, but what good is being able to read greens perfectly with your feet, a bent arm or straight arm, fat or thin fingers etc etc (as has been questioned throughout this thread) if it doesn't have a positive impact on your game/handicap.

As putts account for almost half of most average golfers shots per round, surely an improvement in putting would result in a handicap cut?

 

[Papas1982]

oh god totally agree with this as our handicap is determined if we can read a putting green correctly and not the culmination of number of shots that taken us to get to the green and to hole the ball?

Seriously!!!! 

What's hard to understand.

If if someone has a settled handicap. Then on average they'll reach the greens in a similar amount of shots over the course of a few rounds. So a new super putting technique would eventually see it fall. Not rise.....

 

[Smiffy]

oh god totally agree with this as our handicap is determined if we can read a putting green correctly and not the culmination of number of shots that taken us to get to the green and to hole the ball?

Seriously!!!! 

Yep.

 

[chrisd]

Funny that loads on this thread would quite happily change their swing if their teaching pro suggested it would do something to improve their handicap, but poo poo a similar suggestion where their putting is concerned.

All I know is that I've done the course and feel it's helped my game and if someone had a magic way to always hit the line and strength that I read I'd happily pay for that course too

 

[Qwerty]

To borrow a line from another youtube clip: Crash, bang, wallop, what a video!
(thanks to Alan Partridge)



Anyway, surely a fat fingered bloke (that’s a bloke with fat fingers, rather than…) is going to overestimate the break that his skinny fingered friend would, on exactly the same putt '

I've thought this previously.

Surely someone with Big hands/Sausage fingers is going to get a different line,
Or would you just make an Adjustment to compensate?

 

[Khamelion]

Yes, but what good is being able to read greens perfectly with your feet, a bent arm or straight arm, fat or thin fingers etc etc (as has been questioned throughout this thread) if it doesn't have a positive impact on your game/handicap.

As putts account for almost half of most average golfers shots per round, surely an improvement in putting would result in a handicap cut?

As I've wrote above, not necessarily. My putting has improved a lot since starting to use Aimpoint, a lot more one putts and less three putts, last week was 5 one putts, 5 three putts, one lost ball and 7 2 putts. My chipping has improved, but I'm let down my to many wayward drives and 2nd shots out of trees with no shot to the green, bunkers I hate them, so while my putting is getting better other parts of my game drag my scores down.

 

[Smiffy]

All I know is that I've done the course and feel it's helped my game

I'm assuming that this came after your 5 putt on the 10th at Blackmoor??????

 

[Papas1982]

Funny that loads on this thread would quite happily change their swing if their teaching pro suggested it would do something to improve their handicap, but poo poo a similar suggestion where their putting is concerned.

All I know is that I've done the course and feel it's helped my game and if someone had a magic way to always hit the line and strength that I read I'd happily pay for that course too

Without debating whether it's hocus pocus or not.

You are comparing different concepts.

Swing changes are to to sort out technical faults. Not aim. I doubt anyone goes to their pro and says "I'm really struggling to aim my driver down the middle of a fairway".

 

[Khamelion]

I've thought this previously.

Surely someone with Big hands/Sausage fingers is going to get a different line,
Or would you just make an Adjustment to compensate?

The comment from the nay sayers, has been how far do you bend you arm? what if you have sausage/skinny fingers? surely that means you'll all get different readings, different lines. no you won't. The one thing that is being forgotten, is that the course teaches you how to use the Aimpoint technique, it's up to you to practice it and tailor it to be specific to you.

You learn the technique and go to your home course practice green and practice, calibrate to your own body shape, you use what you have learnt. Just because someone has sausage fingers and someone has skinny fingers is immaterial each person learns through practice what works.

 

[ruff-driver]

What about those folk from norfolk with webbed hands and six fingers, do they always see a 15ft break

 

[Khamelion]

What about those folk from norfolk with webbed hands and six fingers, do they always see a 15ft break

The webbing wouldn't matter as you hold your fingers together and not apart

 

[JohnnyDee]

My cards on the able. I'm a paid up cynic on this issue. And to prefix this post with an overriding in my opinion only.

I think that Aimpoint falls into the same area as equipment manufactures who bring out a new driver or irons every ten minutes claiming that they're X units of something or other better than their last ones were, which were X better than the previous ones and so on down the line backwards.

Under lab / robot / test conditions (say similar to those of the motor trade when producing figures on fuel efficiency) slight improvements can be 'proven' I don't doubt. But take the gear out on the course in 32 degrees or 72 or 85, in flat calm or howling gale with a different ball and player then those performance figures are nothing more than fanciful lab-condition nonsense. None of us play golf in a sterile laboratory.

I have in the past, and undoubtedly will do so again, bought myself the latest clubs and convinced myself that they're better, longer etc. than what I'd been using previously, but when the shine wears off the change is nothing more than a very small one at best. I see my perceived benefit almost as having been a placebo. But during my entire golfing antics I have not changed my putter or my belief that I can putt 'reasonably' well. If I go through a cold period I see it as that. Sure it's frustrating but I know that if I persevere then I'll start holing them again.

As a kid from around the age of eight I would often sink a tin can into the lawn and putt to it from all around the garden. It's this grounding that (IMO) makes me a reasonable putter - not a Pro or a Luke but fairly competent. I trust my stroke and ability to read a putt based on my eyes, the conditions of the day and my past experience.

If Aimpoint really is so effective then I don't understand why everyone on Tour doesn't adopt it.

I'm not saying that no-one should use it as if it works for you then knock yourself out - but for it to packaged up as a saleable panacea for all is not realistic.

So many Tour players suffer putting woes as their careers progress and the short stick begins to let them down when the heat is on. So they go for changes, left above right or vice versa, claw, Super Stroke grips, putters like a Klingon Battle Cruisers and all points in between to get to where they used to be. If Aimpoint was a surefire 100% fix they'd all be at it by now.

I think golf is the hardest game I've ever played and in particular putting is probably the most idiosyncratic part of it. But when I start to get the yips I won't be relying on Aimpoint to save me.

I'm not having a pop at anyone who believes in it - an good luck to you if it works for you as I say.

And in the words of Richard Starkey "Peace and Love everyone, peace and love!":thup:

 

[GreggerKBR]

I've thought this previously.

Surely someone with Big hands/Sausage fingers is going to get a different line,
Or would you just make an Adjustment to compensate?

Correct, when you do the training course with a qualified Aimpoint instructor this all becomes a lot clearer.
Your own body shapes/sizes and feel for slope combined with the science behind 1%-5% slopes accommodate the differences
- provided you have had the proper training... that's why it costs - it's personalised.

If I start to struggle with my reads I go to Aimpoint. It's scientific, it's seriously accurate if you can do certain things properly.
My theory was that if Ko, Poulter etc. think it works and bank cheques based on the theory I'd gladly splash the cash on the course.

I do have beef with one aspect of it regarding putts inside 3ft but aside from that if you:
(a) you do the course with a good instructor
(b) you properly understand the adjustments for green speed
(c) you can set the ball off towards your Aimpoint consistently
(d) you can get a good roll on the ball consistently

Then you will find Aimpoint useful

However, if you're a great putter and have a great routine for green reading then you're going to dismiss it.

As an example, I've dropped about between 4-6 putts per round on my bad putting rounds.
My good rounds have not necessarily improved that dramatically.

I have not watched HJS's video, I'm not commenting on it.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I had the pleasure of playing with Khamelion a few weeks ago. I had a suspicion that he was using pinpoint but never got round to asking. I can certainly confirm that he never slowed anyone down using this method, nor did what he was doing look odd.

If it works for people what's the problem?

 

[chrisd]

I'm assuming that this came after your 5 putt on the 10th at Blackmoor??????

It certainly did Rob :smirk:

 

[ger147]

Without debating whether it's hocus pocus or not.

You are comparing different concepts.

Swing changes are to to sort out technical faults. Not aim. I doubt anyone goes to their pro and says "I'm really struggling to aim my driver down the middle of a fairway".

Not strictly true - I'm a left aimer i.e. when I think I'm aiming straight I'm really aiming a wee bit left. It was my pro who told me this and we're working on it.

 

[chrisd]

Without debating whether it's hocus pocus or not.

You are comparing different concepts.

Swing changes are to to sort out technical faults. Not aim. I doubt anyone goes to their pro and says "I'm really struggling to aim my driver down the middle of a fairway".

Isn't aim technical in Putting?

 

[3565]

What's hard to understand.

If if someone has a settled handicap. Then on average they'll reach the greens in a similar amount of shots over the course of a few rounds. So a new super putting technique would eventually see it fall. Not rise.....

What do you not understand? It has nothing to do with putting technique, it's a different way to read a green as is this new Putt View that's now on the scene that shows you the line on breaking putts, NOT how to putt, just the same with Aimpoint? I take it how you read a green will improve your technique?

Whats hard to understand about that?

 

[Qwerty]

Correct, when you do the training course with a qualified Aimpoint instructor this all becomes a lot clearer.
Your own body shapes/sizes and feel for slope combined with the science behind 1%-5% slopes accommodate the differences
- provided you have had the proper training... that's why it costs - it's personalised.

If I start to struggle with my reads I go to Aimpoint. It's scientific, it's seriously accurate if you can do certain things properly.
My theory was that if Ko, Poulter etc. think it works and bank cheques based on the theory I'd gladly splash the cash on the course.

I do have beef with one aspect of it regarding putts inside 3ft but aside from that if you:
(a) you do the course with a good instructor
(b) you properly understand the adjustments for green speed
(c) you can set the ball off towards your Aimpoint consistently
(d) you can get a good roll on the ball consistently

Then you will find Aimpoint useful

However, if you're a great putter and have a great routine for green reading then you're going to dismiss it.

As an example, I've dropped about between 4-6 putts per round on my bad putting rounds.
My good rounds have not necessarily improved that dramatically.

I have not watched HJS's video, I'm not commenting on it.

Ah right, to be honest i kinda thought the method was set in stone in regards to what you do and then gaining the final read/line. I didn't know you had to practice it. I don't really know a great deal about it and I don't think I'll be watching Homers video.

Certainly not a naysayer..I've used my feet to confirm short breaking putts for some time.
Happy with my putting though, I'd always trust what I see firstly then maybe back it up using my feet if I'm Unsure if there is break or not.