Gun activists.

[Ye Olde Boomer]

I remember, not long after you joined the forum, you told us you were more civilised than us Brits because you carried guns and you had better food than us.
This from a country which allows 40,000 people to die every year so you can keep your lovely guns and has an obesity rate of around 40%.
Not a good way to make a good first impression.

1. Quite frankly, I'd be quite surprised if only 40% of Americans are obese.
I'm sure we can do better than that.
Food is subjective. I like American food and have the belly to prove it.
Brits do not look malnourished, so I'm sure your food is fine whether I like it or not.

2. The US has no NHS and for that reason alone, we're not as civilized (with a z!) as the UK, regardless of anything I may have said in jest.
I have great affection for the UK.

3. I totally agree that privately-owned military-like weapons is a terrible idea, and proscribing them would not violate our constitutionally guaranteed right to bear arms.

Culturally, however, Americans view sporting arms as sporting goods like golf clubs, bowling balls, tennis racquets, and cricket bats,
and it would take a currently impossible constitutional amendment to ban or even regulate ownership of them.

As for handguns other than target pistols, those are unregulated in most rural states and require very difficult-to-acquire licensing in densely populated ones.
I own a couple of them, but if they were to be banned, I'd have no problem giving them up provided I was fairly remunerated for them.

I don't know what to add to this, bobmac. We're obviously not going to agree on everything.

 

[bobmac]

I have 2 questions
1. Do you think its acceptable for people in America to go about their daily business carrying a handgun about their person?
2. If the number of hand guns in America was reduced, would the number of gun related deaths be reduced?

I don't know what to add to this, bobmac. We're obviously not going to agree on everything.

We're not going to agree on anything when it comes to guns.
They are designed, made, sold and bought for the sole purpose of shooting/killing.

I only hope the police catch that guy from Milwaukee before he shoots any more children

 

[chiral]

I'm not sure if it's a 100% bad idea. On one hand, there are lots of crazy idiots who shouldn't be allowed to have guns. On the other hand, there are organizations like aaappp, I mean, sometimes you have to protect yourself from those who are meant to protect you. I'm not saying it's okay to shoot the police, I just want to say it's a crazy world and it's been a long time we should've given up on discussing things like that for real. It won't be okay under either outcome.

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

I have 2 questions
1. Do you think its acceptable for people in America to go about their daily business carrying a handgun about their person?
2. If the number of hand guns in America was reduced, would the number of gun related deaths be reduced?

We're not going to agree on anything when it comes to guns.
They are designed, made, sold and bought for the sole purpose of shooting/killing.

I only hope the police catch that guy from Milwaukee before he shoots any more children

The vast majority of the murders committed with hand guns in the United States occur in urban areas where concealed weapon carrying is already illegal. If people will break the law to murder people, why would they comply with other laws?

Private ownership of firearms is legal in the United States not by statute but rather by Constitutional specification. In other words, one of the conditions of being American is the right to bear arms unless/until you're convicted of a violent felony. Dual citizens of the US/UK may own guns here and can't bring them there. When in Rome...

I don't know what else I can add to that. When I come to visit your shores and enjoy your hospitality, you may be assured that I'm unarmed and totally respectful of your local laws.

 

[bobmac]

I don't know what else I can add to that.

You could have tried answering the 2 yes or no questions I asked.

 

[Swango1980]

You could have tried answering the 2 yes or no questions I asked.

Haha, you may not get that. Whether he answers yes or no, he doesn't really come out a "winner" in this particular discussion

 

[Sats]

I don't see why people need guns in a civilian capacity.

 

[drdel]

The family experience I've had of the USA is that life is not overshadowed by gun ownership.

Nutters exist and in the UK guns are acquired by those whose walk that side of the 'line'. There is, I believe, an increasing use of guns in UK domestic robberies leading bolstering the robbers courage that (weapons equipped) they are now happy to breaking in while householders are still home! My relatives in the USA do not live under such threats, often leaving their doors open and cars unlocked.

Criminal on both sides of the 'pond' can and do get weapons - we in the UK may like to pretend they don't exist but we no longer live in the 18th/19th century of the 'British' stiff upper lip and social respectability. Just as in the USA there are areas in the UK where crime and violence; no-go places where 'normal' people no longer visit and the police avoid. The respect and value of life in UK society has declined for all manner of reasons with consequences that 'innocent' citizens can feel the need for some protection. As in the UK you'll not get involved unless you look for it.

The USA has a society that permits the ownership of guns and I can see a justification of sorts for small calibre handguns. The UK does not agree with that freedom but that does not permit us to be pious and degenerate their society and citizens for the 'legal' choice they are allowed.

Guns exist we cannot put the genie back in the bottle we need to manage the situation; 'high horse' attitudes and banning these items will drive the issue further into the hand of factions and groups that live outside the law.

 

[Sats]

The family experience I've had of the USA is that life is not overshadowed by gun ownership.

Nutters exist and in the UK guns are acquired by those whose walk that side of the 'line'. There is, I believe, an increasing use of guns in UK domestic robberies leading bolstering the robbers courage that (weapons equipped) they are now happy to breaking in while householders are still home! My relatives in the USA do not live under such threats, often leaving their doors open and cars unlocked.

Criminal on both sides of the 'pond' can and do get weapons - we in the UK may like to pretend they don't exist but we no longer live in the 18th/19th century of the 'British' stiff upper lip and social respectability. Just as in the USA there are areas in the UK where crime and violence; no-go places where 'normal' people no longer visit and the police avoid. The respect and value of life in UK society has declined for all manner of reasons with consequences that 'innocent' citizens can feel the need for some protection. As in the UK you'll not get involved unless you look for it.

The USA has a society that permits the ownership of guns and I can see a justification of sorts for small calibre handguns. The UK does not agree with that freedom but that does not permit us to be pious and degenerate their society and citizens for the 'legal' choice they are allowed.

Guns exist we cannot put the genie back in the bottle we need to manage the situation; 'high horse' attitudes and banning these items will drive the issue further into the hand of factions and groups that live outside the law.

Are you in the police? If so where? Because I work in Brixton/Peckham and can tell you a lot about knife/gun crime. Without trying to insult you I think you're mis-informed about criminality in the UK. As far as avoiding areas by police that must be a county thing cause in london if there's a problem we go there, not stupidly, but If i was so scared to go to an area to do my job I better get a desk job somewhere else!

 

[Swango1980]

The family experience I've had of the USA is that life is not overshadowed by gun ownership.

Nutters exist and in the UK guns are acquired by those whose walk that side of the 'line'. There is, I believe, an increasing use of guns in UK domestic robberies leading bolstering the robbers courage that (weapons equipped) they are now happy to breaking in while householders are still home! My relatives in the USA do not live under such threats, often leaving their doors open and cars unlocked.

Criminal on both sides of the 'pond' can and do get weapons - we in the UK may like to pretend they don't exist but we no longer live in the 18th/19th century of the 'British' stiff upper lip and social respectability. Just as in the USA there are areas in the UK where crime and violence; no-go places where 'normal' people no longer visit and the police avoid. The respect and value of life in UK society has declined for all manner of reasons with consequences that 'innocent' citizens can feel the need for some protection. As in the UK you'll not get involved unless you look for it.

The USA has a society that permits the ownership of guns and I can see a justification of sorts for small calibre handguns. The UK does not agree with that freedom but that does not permit us to be pious and degenerate their society and citizens for the 'legal' choice they are allowed.

Guns exist we cannot put the genie back in the bottle we need to manage the situation; 'high horse' attitudes and banning these items will drive the issue further into the hand of factions and groups that live outside the law.

Funny, us in the UK have to lock our doors, whilst in the USA families can happily leave their door unlocked.

Can you tell us why? Only reading between lines here, but are you saying it's because those lucky families in USA have guns themselves, which deters robbers?

Well, if we in the UK are kidding ourselves, I guess getting attacked someone with a gun in UK is much more likely than in the US.

However, I suspect that is not the case at all.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I would hazard a guess that there is very little actual gun crime in the UK, with their availability very limited to certain criminal elements with guns effects being very traceable after the event. They also make a lot of noise which attracts attention. Knives on the other hand are silent and in every house in the land.

 

[Sats]

I would hazard a guess that there is very little actual gun crime in the UK, with their availability very limited to certain criminal elements with guns effects being very traceable after the event. They also make a lot of noise which attracts attention. Knives on the other hand are silent and in every house in the land.

Exactly what I see. Guns are very difficult to come by as is ammunition, where as a kitchen knife is easily obtained and by it's very nature is for a different legal purpose.

 

[drdel]

Funny, us in the UK have to lock our doors, whilst in the USA families can happily leave their door unlocked.

Can you tell us why? Only reading between lines here, but are you saying it's because those lucky families in USA have guns themselves, which deters robbers? (1)

Well, if we in the UK are kidding ourselves, I guess getting attacked someone with a gun in UK is much more likely than in the US.(2)

However, I suspect that is not the case at all.

Not generalising; just an opinion...

1. I have UK friends whole have been robbed while watching TV with CCTV showing weaponised intruders. My USA relatives believe the common ownership does prevent household robbery

2. Never said that; only said the UK has areas where many UK citizens feel very uncomfortable and would avoid which is the same state-side.

Nowhere did I suggest the UK follow the USA. I merely tried to point out that the USA is not as gun-mad as its often portrayed and there is more balance than just a one sided stance against YOB's perspective. The average 'yank' does not fixate on the subject.

 

[Swango1980]

1. I have UK friends whole have been robbed while watching TV with CCTV showing weaponised intruders. My USA relatives believe the common ownership does prevent household robbery

2. Never said that; only said the UK has areas where many UK citizens feel very uncomfortable and would avoid which is the same state-side.

Nowhere did I suggest the UK follow the USA. I merely tried to point out that the USA is not as gun-mad as its often portrayed and there is more balance than just a one sided stance against YOB's perspective. The average 'yank' does not fixate on the subject.

I know you didn't say it, I was only seeking clarification before I went too far in reading between lines.

It is fair to say that, we in the UK will only hear about things when a big gun incident happens in US, so it is easy to think guns are at the forefront of everyone's mind. I'm from N Ireland, and when I moved to England 15 years ago, there were still people who assumed I was straight out of a war zone. I can only imagine what theyd think if I'd moved over in the 70's or 80's (forgetting fact I wasnt born in 70's ).

In a UK forum however, the masses are always going to be dead against the US gun laws, as they simply dont seem to make sense. Nor do most of us feel we would want a gun ourselves. I would 100% not want a gun myself, for fear of someone getting it and accidentally firing it, for fear of a criminal getting it and using it against me or for fear of getting in a possible difficult situation, and using it on someone else abruptly and then finding out it was a misunderstanding. And, besides, I just dont feel I need that level of protection at home, as I feel it is significantly less likely a gun wielding robber will come after me, than if I was in US.

I'm sure the debate in a US forum would be much more evenly split.

 

[bobmac]

I merely tried to point out that the USA is not as gun-mad as its often portrayed

For every 100 people in the US, there are 120.5 guns. (2017)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country
So more guns than people.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

For every 100 people in the US, there are 120.5 guns. (2017)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country
So more guns than people.

But Bob, we know that for every 100 people in the UK, there must be in excess of 300 knives

 

[drdel]

For every 100 people in the US, there are 120.5 guns. (2017)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country
So more guns than people.

As I said just trying to explain the USA - UK society differences - not trying to 'justify'.

Note; 'civilised' Germany, France, Norway, Portugal have at least 4 time greater 'ownership' than UK yet we don't seem to 'preach' to these societies.

 

[Swango1980]

As I said just trying to explain the USA - UK society differences - not trying to 'justify'.

Note; 'civilised' Germany, France, Norway, Portugal have at least 4 time greater 'ownership' than UK yet we don't seem to 'preach' to these societies.

4 times? Is that similar to USA, or do they have more than 4 times the gun ownership than UK. If so, I suspect that is why those in the UK discuss guns in USA more than in the other countries you mention

 

[Tashyboy]

As I said just trying to explain the USA - UK society differences - not trying to 'justify'.

Note; 'civilised' Germany, France, Norway, Portugal have at least 4 time greater 'ownership' than UK yet we don't seem to 'preach' to these societies.

it always helps to of seen both sides of the coin to be able to formulate an opinion. Post 208 explains you have had an experience of family life both here and In the USA. Hence your comments. And as you mention, there’s more of a fixation with guns in America from us Brits than the Americans that actually own them.I think it’s fair to say that most folk don’t like the thought of guns on our streets. Yes they are no where near the levels of America in the sense of nigh on everyone has one, but they are on the streets and used by drug gangs. So how does Plod protect himself from that threat. By arming himself. The Police are now armed to the hilt initially to combat any Terrorist threat. After that it’s the drug criminal fraternity that firearms are used for.
my Daughter was explaining the firearms that they carry. Hand pistol,and semi automatic ( machine gun). Over the last couple of years a terrorists weapon of choice has been a 20 ton truck to mow down carnival and event going pedestrians. The answer to that is to carry bigger guns that will put a massive hole through an engine block to stop said truck. It’s a reactionary answer to an ever changing world in which unfortunately guns are here to stay. More so in America.

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

Haha, you may not get that. Whether he answers yes or no, he doesn't really come out a "winner" in this particular discussion

I don't know the answers to those questions, but it doesn't matter.
The right to bear arms is a constitutionally specified right for any American never convicted of a violent felony.
There's nothing to be done about it.
The method for amending the Constitution is inapplicable in the absence of near universal demand for it---which very clearly doesn't exist.
I'm OK with it. Some don't like it. But it's fact and not about to be changed.

Consider it a part of the excitement of visiting the USA.
There is always that very small likelihood of getting shot between the eyes.
And think of the relief when you arrive back at home.

All I have to think about when I come there is to "mind the gap!"