Greens

[balaclava]

Does the design of a golf course follows some form of rationale. Does the R&A or whoever set out some guiding principles on things like, where to position bunkers and the design of greens?

I have just moved clubs and at my new club 80% of the greens are raised, they were purposely raised over the years. From a 100 yards in, if I lob a ball onto the green it will run though and when it gets to the back it rolls 5+ yards down a steep embankment. If I lob it in short and hit the front bank it will stop. The plus handicapper will get some back spin on it and stop it. Does the R&A handbook with the guiding principles on golf course design suggest that the course be set up to challenge the plus handicap golfer to the detriment of the other 99% of golfers?

 

[Backache]

As far as I'm aware it is entirely up to the architect and the clubs how a course is designed. A personal view is that having a mixture of courses with challenges to different abilites is a good thing, though I'm sorry your new course doesn't suit you.

 

[Orikoru]

I'm pretty sure there are rules saying that the pin needs to be a flat portion of the green to a particular radius - but my club falls foul of this as it's not possible on a few of the greens, so it might be more of an advisory than a regulation.

 

[Imurg]

I'm not sure any of our greens have flat spots on them........

 

[Crow]

Does the design of a golf course follows some form of rationale. Does the R&A or whoever set out some guiding principles on things like, where to position bunkers and the design of greens?

I have just moved clubs and at my new club 80% of the greens are raised, they were purposely raised over the years. From a 100 yards in, if I lob a ball onto the green it will run though and when it gets to the back it rolls 5+ yards down a steep embankment. If I lob it in short and hit the front bank it will stop. The plus handicapper will get some back spin on it and stop it. Does the R&A handbook with the guiding principles on golf course design suggest that the course be set up to challenge the plus handicap golfer to the detriment of the other 99% of golfers?

I don't mind occasional greens of this type, we have a few at my course, but if they dominate a course as you suggest then I would not enjoy playing it.

The only practical reason for them is if the course suffers from waterlogging as the greens then drain and dry out quicker.
Otherwise It's just an unnatural artifice to make the course harder, particularly as you say for the higher handicap golfers.

What's your slope rating like?

 

[D-S]

Donald Ross in the US is a famed architect - at Pinehurst many o his greens are described as upturned saucers. The starter at Pinehurst No.2 said that the greens were not so much upturned saucers more upturned soup bowls. He wasn't wrong!

 

[Teebs]

Pin placement should be regulated and I think there's rules about slopes. Green complexes themselves aren't as far as I'm concerned.

We had a new Greenkeeper this year and he needed to be shown where is acceptable, especially in summer with quick green speeds.

 

[bobmac]

From a 100 yards in, if I lob a ball onto the green it will run though and when it gets to the back it rolls 5+ yards down a steep embankment.

What make/model of ball are you using?

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Donald Ross in the US is a famed architect - at Pinehurst many o his greens are described as upturned saucers. The starter at Pinehurst No.2 said that the greens were not so much upturned saucers more upturned soup bowls. He wasn't wrong!

I read that the original greens were sand and oil based, no grass. Every year they had to top them up, thus they got so elevated and saucer shaped.

 

[balaclava]

What's your slope rating like?

Course rating 72.3 / Slope rating 130

 

[Neilds]

Isn’t there a rule about how close to the edge of the green the pin is allowed? Sure I read this somewhere but may be imagining it

 

[Slab]

A few raised green are a fun challenge (home club has 4) but I don't think i'd like a dozen+ on the same course, just because it lacks variety

But a raised green also has to be on the right hole design so that it fits in with the length/par etc

 

[rulefan]

Isn’t there a rule about how close to the edge of the green the pin is allowed? Sure I read this somewhere but may be imagining it

There is no rule specifying the relationship between the hole and the edge of the green; nor slopes, contours, size, shape or gradients. There are however recommendations re course setup.
However, the Course Rating system makes adjustments for many of these aspects.

 

[rulefan]

Does the design of a golf course follows some form of rationale. Does the R&A or whoever set out some guiding principles on things like, where to position bunkers and the design of greens?

I have just moved clubs and at my new club 80% of the greens are raised, they were purposely raised over the years. From a 100 yards in, if I lob a ball onto the green it will run though and when it gets to the back it rolls 5+ yards down a steep embankment. If I lob it in short and hit the front bank it will stop. The plus handicapper will get some back spin on it and stop it. Does the R&A handbook with the guiding principles on golf course design suggest that the course be set up to challenge the plus handicap golfer to the detriment of the other 99% of golfers?

Originally, before irrigation systems were widespread, most greens were built using a procedure where the green surface was situated above a bowl of water-retaining clay.
Many years later the USGA developed a system that involved fully irrigated greens being built on a sandy base that allowed for surplus water to drain away preventing the roots being overwet. To assist with drainage most of these greens were elevated above the normal ground level. Most greens will be built or rebuilt to the USGA spec these days.
However, many UK greens will still be based on the clay bowl structure.

https://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/usgamisc/monos/2018recommendationsmethodputtinggreen.pdf

 

[balaclava]

But a raised green also has to be on the right hole design so that it fits in with the length/par etc

Example: the first Par 5 (stroke index 6) ; 510 yards; the green is 23 yards long 17 yards wide

 

[rulefan]

But a raised green also has to be on the right hole design so that it fits in with the length/par etc

That isn't a Rule though.

 

[Slab]

Example: the first Par 5 (stroke index 6) ; 510 yards; the green is 23 yards long 17 yards wide

Spookily that’s very similar to our 1st par 5 (stroke 1)
520 yards (into a 3 club wind all the time) not doable in 2, 3rd shot is from about 50ft below the level of green which severely slopes back to front and anything short is running back 30+ yards and anything long/left/right is down banking of 10yards… green is 25yards by 20 yards (but its supposed to be small because it’s a short club approach for most players and pretty much everyone is stroking on it)

I both love and loathe that hole, the 5’s are cause for rapture and joy, I think you can guess how I feel about doubles and worse.

Last 3 rounds on it were a 9, 6 and a 5

 

[Slab]

That isn't a Rule though.

Can't disagree with that. I should've made it clearer I was talking about design rather than rules

 

[TimShady]

Why did you join the club?

 

[balaclava]

Why did you join the club?

Long story