Greens Rules - Ball lying in an old replaced hole site.

[Kraxx68]

I'm on the Green and where my ball has stopped is on an old/replaced hole. However the replaced hole had a visible gap line where my ball laid to rest in it (around the edge of the old replaced hole)... if I was to play where it lied the ball would have deviated or bumped etc away from the required/intended line I needed to putt too.

Am I right in thinking that I could lift an place my ball within 6in no nearer the hole to which I am putting too... is this correct?? I hope so....

 

[Region3]

You are able to try to repair it first. If that isn't possible, you place on the nearest available spot not nearer the hole where you aren't affected. No 6" leeway, just the nearest spot.

 

[Kraxx68]

Defo not repairable, but I did go a few inches to the right as where I was putting from would have meant going over the infringed part of the hole. I was defo not trying to improve my line to the hole, just trying to get a clear and unaffected line to it. Thanks for your help

 

[Region3]

Being affected includes the path of the ball so you were ok to do that. It's just the "at that spot" rather than "within x distance" that is different when you take relief on the green.

Not in the case of an old hole plug, but certain circumstances may mean the npr is off the green as well.

 

[louise_a]

In the definition of rules, its says that if it is not repairable, the player may suspend play and contact the committee who can then repair the damage or if not possible declare it as ground under repair which you can then get relief from.

It says nothing about being able to move it yourself without following the above procedure.

 

[Region3]

In the definition of rules, its says that if it is not repairable, the player may suspend play and contact the committee who can then repair the damage or if not possible declare it as ground under repair which you can then get relief from.

It says nothing about being able to move it yourself without following the above procedure.

I skipped the bit about asking the committee to repair it, because it's never going to happen in a club comp.

Hands up to omitting a part of the rule

 

[Kraxx68]

Awesome, thanks again for helping to clear that up.

 

[rosecott]

I skipped the bit about asking the committee to repair it, because it's never going to happen in a club comp.

Hands up to omitting a part of the rule

And therein lies the problem, Gary.

The last resort quoted in Decision 16-1c/3 is that the committee should declare it Ground Under Repair. It's just as unlikely that a committee member will be available to make that declaration. The player cannot make the declaration off his own bat.

 

[Foxholer]

And therein lies the problem, Gary.

The last resort quoted in Decision 16-1c/3 is that the committee should declare it Ground Under Repair. It's just as unlikely that a committee member will be available to make that declaration. The player cannot make the declaration off his own bat.

As part of the general 'Conditions of Competition' that function was delegated to the senior available Pro if 'The Committee' was unavailable. So at least a decision could be made.

 

[rosecott]

As part of the general 'Conditions of Competition' that function was delegated to the senior available Pro if 'The Committee' was unavailable. So at least a decision could be made.

I assume that you mean that this was laid down at one particular club but does not apply universally.

 

[Foxholer]

I assume that you mean that this was laid down at one particular club but does not apply universally.

Indeed!

Forgotten the actual wording (it was nearly 10 years ago) but it was brought in because of an incident of just the sort described by the OP - when all the available members of 'The Committee' were actually on the course!

 

[Region3]

Is there not a rule or precedent for a procedure to follow when none of the committee are available?

Is it just a case of tough luck and you have to play off/over it?

Even the stickliest of sticklers isn't going to suspend their group's play and go find a committee member.

 

[rosecott]

Is there not a rule or precedent for a procedure to follow when none of the committee are available?

Is it just a case of tough luck and you have to play off/over it?

Even the stickliest of sticklers isn't going to suspend their group's play and go find a committee member.

The short answer is "tough luck" if the committee are not doing their job. Can you imagine what it would be like if all players were to be allowed to declare something they didn't like as GUR in the absence of a committee member to take any necessary action?

 

[Region3]

The short answer is "tough luck" if the committee are not doing their job. Can you imagine what it would be like if all players were to be allowed to declare something they didn't like as GUR in the absence of a committee member to take any necessary action?

No one is talking about any piece of ground they didn't like. Just the hole plug as mentioned in the OP, and the rule itself.

Are you saying you'd expect a group to wait for however long it takes for a committee member to come take a look, or just that relief should be denied?

 

[rosecott]

No one is talking about any piece of ground they didn't like. Just the hole plug as mentioned in the OP, and the rule itself.

Are you saying you'd expect a group to wait for however long it takes for a committee member to come take a look, or just that relief should be denied?

No, what I'm saying is that if the committee haven't done their job, it's "rub of the green". "Self-declaring" GUR has to be a complete no-no. I know quite a few players who would, given the chance, declare as GUR any old hole plug no matter how perfectly it had been done.

 

[Region3]

No, what I'm saying is that if the committee haven't done their job, it's "rub of the green". "Self-declaring" GUR has to be a complete no-no. I know quite a few players who would, given the chance, declare as GUR any old hole plug no matter how perfectly it had been done.

I don't understand why it's the committee's fault if old holes aren't fit to roll a ball over. Do you mean they should inspect the greens each time new holes are cut? Sorry if I'm being thick.

I take your point about players taking every opportunity for relief whether justified or not, but the rules of golf demand that players police themselves in more subjective cases - burrowing animal hole probably being the most abused.

I look forward to the next time this occurs and seeing the look on my FC's faces as I tap the edges of the old hole down with my putter. There is one guy in-particular I'm going to pray is with me when I do it.

 

[Khamelion]

So between yourselves (Rosecott & Region3) what you are saying is either:-

1 - (Rosecott) Stop play, go find the appropriate person to make a ruling, or suck it up and play it as it lies.

2 - (Region3) Let the player make the ruling and move the ball out of the old plugged hole.


I would guess then which ever of the above is applied would depend on how much of a rules stickler the players fellow competitors are.

 

[Region3]

So between yourselves (Rosecott & Region3) what you are saying is either:-

1 - (Rosecott) Stop play, go find the appropriate person to make a ruling, or suck it up and play it as it lies.

2 - (Region3) Let the player make the ruling and move the ball out of the old plugged hole.


I would guess then which ever of the above is applied would depend on how much of a rules stickler the players fellow competitors are.

1) They can first try to repair it themsleves.

2) I wouldn't say let the player make the ruling, but the group as a whole.

Next time someone asks me I'm staying out of it! :rofl:

 

[bobmac]

Maybe a mod could move this thread to the 'rules section', then maybe the rules experts could join in.

 

[Kraxx68]

1) They can first try to repair it themsleves.

2) I wouldn't say let the player make the ruling, but the group as a whole.

Next time someone asks me I'm staying out of it! :rofl:

Next time I'll just take my pitching wedge