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[Old Skier]

I wish you all the best for your results Jeff.

Cheers Chris, if it’s not the ticker it’s another part of the failing body.

 

[chrisd]

I had a chat with the urology department today to catch up with results of my surgery 6 weeks ago

I'm pleased to say that my PSA is undectectable and that means all the cancer was removed with the prostate. Also the lymph nodes were clear, as was, the immediate area round the prostate - in other words, everything is now ok. I will have surveillance for a few years but hopefully it's all done now.

Please guys, if you learn the symptoms of prostate issues, and see your doctor immediately any are detected, you needn't be a statistic of deaths that really can be avoided.

Thanks for kind posts on this subject

 

[Tashyboy]

I had a chat with the urology department today to catch up with results of my surgery 6 weeks ago

I'm pleased to say that my PSA is undectectable and that means all the cancer was removed with the prostate. Also the lymph nodes were clear, as was, the immediate area round the prostate - in other words, everything is now ok. I will have surveillance for a few years but hopefully it's all done now.

Please guys, if you learn the symptoms of prostate issues, and see your doctor immediately any are detected, you needn't be a statistic of deaths that really can be avoided.

Thanks for kind posts on this subject

missis T who dealt with Urology says very good news indeed. ?

 

[Billysboots]

I had a chat with the urology department today to catch up with results of my surgery 6 weeks ago

I'm pleased to say that my PSA is undectectable and that means all the cancer was removed with the prostate. Also the lymph nodes were clear, as was, the immediate area round the prostate - in other words, everything is now ok. I will have surveillance for a few years but hopefully it's all done now.

Please guys, if you learn the symptoms of prostate issues, and see your doctor immediately any are detected, you needn't be a statistic of deaths that really can be avoided.

Thanks for kind posts on this subject

Great to hear, Chris. And wise words - prostate cancer is, as you know, referred to as the silent killer. But it is so treatable if caught early.

Onwards and upwards, and congratulations on taking this massive step on your way to recovery.

 

[chrisd]

I've caned this thread a bit and apologise if anyone takes the view "it's all about me" but my real purpose was to highlight the issue particularly to men over 50. Please, please as the thread dwindles away be aware that Billysboots, and I, are just two of the forum who could have died from this cancer had we ignored the symptoms, or worse, been too embarrassed to go to the doctor.

 

[Tashyboy]

I've caned this thread a bit and apologise if anyone takes the view "it's all about me" but my real purpose was to highlight the issue particularly to men over 50. Please, please as the thread dwindles away be aware that Billysboots, and I, are just two of the forum who could have died from this cancer had we ignored the symptoms, or worse, been too embarrassed to go to the doctor.

Ave a feeling Chris that this thread will not go away in the same vein as the dementia, Stoma and Random irritations?. We’re not getting any younger. Also some folk struggle to talk about issues. Maybe just maybe they will see threads like these and ” open up”. ?

 

[louise_a]

To each their own opinion.

I'm more jealous of where you play. I was a member there before moving north 21 years ago. Fabulous course then, apparently much better now.

Nothing wrong with playing at Royal Nelson!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Ave a feeling Chris that this thread will not go away in the same vein as the dementia, Stoma and Random irritations?. We’re not getting any younger. Also some folk struggle to talk about issues. Maybe just maybe they will see threads like these and ” open up”. ?

As my 64yr old bil didn’t about all he had going on until he was almost on his death bed…My wife then forced him to be honest to himself about himself; see a GP; and to be open and honest with the GP about ALL his symptoms. He is diagnosed with multiple myeloma (incurable cancer of the bone marrow). It’s only four months ago, but without seeing his GP he could, almost certainly would, by now be pushing up daisies.

It’s difficult, and denial and fear are strong, but we really mustn’t dismiss or be in denial about what’s going on with our bodies.

 

[Genu9]

 

[Ethan]

View attachment 42344

Oh dear. "We have potentially saved 5 lives". I wish that were true, but it very probably isn't.

When screening programmes began, an early example being breast cancer, it quickly appeared that people detected at screening lived longer. Some time later, detailed analysis showed that many of those people lived longer only because they were detected earlier, in other words their likely date of death was the same, but if you diagnose their cancer 6 months sooner, they appear to live 6 months longer. There was little or no true survival benefit. This is known as lead time bias. That is not the case for all, clearly, but some of those who do benefit are balanced by those who suffer harm due to unnecessary intervention.

At that testing event, the men who got negative tests, green light, should not all be entirely confident they are in the clear. Some people with prostate cancer have "normal" PSA levels.

This issue is more complex than it is presented. Good intentions do not mean it is a good idea.

 

[Billysboots]

Oh dear. "We have potentially saved 5 lives". I wish that were true, but it very probably isn't.

When screening programmes began, an early example being breast cancer, it quickly appeared that people detected at screening lived longer. Some time later, detailed analysis showed that many of those people lived longer only because they were detected earlier, in other words their likely date of death was the same, but if you diagnose their cancer 6 months sooner, they appear to live 6 months longer. There was little or no true survival benefit. This is known as lead time bias. That is not the case for all, clearly, but some of those who do benefit are balanced by those who suffer harm due to unnecessary intervention.

At that testing event, the men who got negative tests, green light, should not all be entirely confident they are in the clear. Some people with prostate cancer have "normal" PSA levels.

This issue is more complex than it is presented. Good intentions do not mean it is a good idea.

On the other hand, those five men may all have Stage 2 or 3 cancer, where surgical or radiotherapy intervention may, indeed, save or prolong their lives. Stage 2 or 3 cancer which, if left undetected for a lengthy period, may well have advanced and metastasised.

 

[Ethan]

On the other hand, those five men may all have Stage 2 or 3 cancer, where surgical or radiotherapy intervention may, indeed, save or prolong their lives. Stage 2 or 3 cancer which, if left undetected for a lengthy period, may well have advanced and metastasised.

Very unlikely. Much more likely they are either false positives or have an indolent cancer which will have no effect on life, but may now expose themselves to anaesthetic and surgical risk. Flagging positive tests as successes is very problematic.

There is a reason that PSA screening is not a national screening programme.

It is the same reason that has now been identified for breast screening, the net benefits are very doubtful. Cervical screening works pretty well, though.

 

[Billysboots]

Very unlikely. Much more likely they are either false positives or have an indolent cancer which will have no effect on life, but may now expose themselves to anaesthetic and surgical risk. Flagging positive tests as successes is very problematic.

There is a reason that PSA screening is not a national screening programme.

It is the same reason that has now been identified for breast screening, the net benefits are very doubtful. Cervical screening works pretty well, though.

But these men won’t be going straight from PSA screening to an operating theatre, will they? If the screening leads to a digital exam, then an MRI, and ultimately a biopsy, then the mere fact that the screening has flagged a potential problem has to be seen as a good thing.

I can only speak from my own experience, along with other patients I have met during my journey, but without a very slightly raised PSA waving a red flag at my GP, and her then referring me on the cancer pathway, my absence of symptoms would have left my cancer sitting in my prostate, with the potential to wreak havoc, and with me none the wiser.

Most in my position accept that PSA screening is not without its issues, and I tell anyone I speak to that, taken alone, it provides a pretty meaningless number. But if that number is used as a baseline for a structured investigation then it has to be a good thing.

I’m a little surprised to see a medical man suggesting otherwise if I’m honest.

 

[Ethan]

But these men won’t be going straight from PSA screening to an operating theatre, will they? If the screening leads to a digital exam, then an MRI, and ultimately a biopsy, then the mere fact that the screening has flagged a potential problem has to be seen as a good thing.

I can only speak from my own experience, along with other patients I have met during my journey, but without a very slightly raised PSA waving a red flag at my GP, and her then referring me on the cancer pathway, my absence of symptoms would have left my cancer sitting in my prostate, with the potential to wreak havoc, and with me none the wiser.

Most in my position accept that PSA screening is not without its issues, and I tell anyone I speak to that, taken alone, it provides a pretty meaningless number. But if that number is used as a baseline for a structured investigation then it has to be a good thing.

I’m a little surprised to see a medical man suggesting otherwise if I’m honest.

You are surprised to see a medical man reflect the broad data on this? You really shouldn't. Careful review of using PSA as a screening tool shows it is much less beneficial than you think, and consequently the NHS does not support it.

I have no objection in principle about an effective screening technique for prostates, one of which I possess. I am glad it worked well for you, but that experience colours your overall perception of the benefits, and there are others who have unnecessary surgery, or have complications of biopsy, or who suffer stress and depression which sometimes leads to suicide attempts. You don't actually know that your cancer would have wreaked havoc, many or even most don't. However, your surgery could have done so.

One of the most reputable organisations for the analysis of data is the Cochrane Collaboration. They reviewed prostate screening and their opinion is as follows: Cochrane

Cancer Research UK agrees: CRUK

The BMJ doesn't disagree: BMJ

 

[Billysboots]

You are surprised to see a medical man reflect the broad data on this? You really shouldn't. Careful review of using PSA as a screening tool shows it is much less beneficial than you think, and consequently the NHS does not support it.

I have no objection in principle about an effective screening technique for prostates, one of which I possess. I am glad it worked well for you, but that experience colours your overall perception of the benefits, and there are others who have unnecessary surgery, or have complications of biopsy, or who suffer stress and depression which sometimes leads to suicide attempts. You don't actually know that your cancer would have wreaked havoc, many or even most don't. However, your surgery could have done so.

One of the most reputable organisations for the analysis of data is the Cochrane Collaboration. They reviewed prostate screening and their opinion is as follows: Cochrane

Cancer Research UK agrees: CRUK

The BMJ doesn't disagree: BMJ

As I say, I know there are pitfalls, much the same as I know it is entirely possible to live with prostate cancer for many, many years without it causing any significant issue or, indeed, any issue at all. Whilst the figure quoted is 1 in 8 men will get prostate cancer during their lifetime, I understand the true figure is actually nearer 1 in 6, because so many cancers go undiagnosed.

I tend to agree with you in as much as my experience may well have clouded my judgement regarding the benefits of PSA screening. The whole journey, for me, has been rather confusing not least because, once diagnosed, it was then largely my choice what happened next. It was my choice whether I had surgery or radiotherapy - the surgeon tried to lead me down that route, the oncologist towards the alternative. It was my choice to what extent my nerves were spared. What I actually wanted was for someone to say this is what we’re doing, this is why.

All I know is that, once I was told I had a cancer, I wanted rid. I think I have been exceptionally lucky outcome wise, both in terms of my longer term prognosis and the side effects, which for me have been very manageable. I do understand that not everyone diagnosed is anywhere near as fortunate as me if they opt for surgery, but I do think it really important that some sort of screening is available, even if there are pitfalls. Ultimately, as confusing as the process was, I’d rather have had to make those choices, than suffer the alternative worst case scenario.

 

[Ethan]

As I say, I know there are pitfalls, much the same as I know it is entirely possible to live with prostate cancer for many, many years without it causing any significant issue or, indeed, any issue at all. Whilst the figure quoted is 1 in 8 men will get prostate cancer during their lifetime, I understand the true figure is actually nearer 1 in 6, because so many cancers go undiagnosed.

I tend to agree with you in as much as my experience may well have clouded my judgement regarding the benefits of PSA screening. The whole journey, for me, has been rather confusing not least because, once diagnosed, it was then largely my choice what happened next. It was my choice whether I had surgery or radiotherapy - the surgeon tried to lead me down that route, the oncologist towards the alternative. It was my choice to what extent my nerves were spared. What I actually wanted was for someone to say this is what we’re doing, this is why.

All I know is that, once I was told I had a cancer, I wanted rid. I think I have been exceptionally lucky outcome wise, both in terms of my longer term prognosis and the side effects, which for me have been very manageable. I do understand that not everyone diagnosed is anywhere near as fortunate as me if they opt for surgery, but I do think it really important that some sort of screening is available, even if there are pitfalls. Ultimately, as confusing as the process was, I’d rather have had to make those choices, than suffer the alternative worst case scenario.

That is perfectly understandable. Individuals don't respond to epidemiological studies, and once a cancer is found, few people will do nothing unless nothing can be done. To a certain extent, nasty changes in the prostate become inevitable and if you did a PM on an otherwise fit man in his late 70s who had been shot by another jealous husband, you would probably find changes in the prostate. May never have done him any harm.

To one extent, if people go in with their eyes open and realise that a positive or borderline test might mean nothing, but also that a negative test is no guarantee, it is their call. The latter group, people who are reassured by a "normal" PSA, are more of a concern, because a few months later when they get some symptoms., they might do nothing.

 

[Genu9]

https://mailchi.mp/8ac660b5717f/august-newsletter?e=c96d18c14c

Without getting into the whole philosophical argument about the pro and cons. Here are the dates of the next Barry Kilby sponsored PCA test dates.

 

[Old Skier]

Having recently been diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer which was discovered going down the PSA route all I will say is a test is better than no test.

 

[Old Skier]

My new word of the day “brachytherapy”, in next Monday.

 

[Genu9]

It's not till you test positive that you suddenly find out how prevalent this is. We have at least 20 member who have gone through the various treatments and we talk openly about it so that those who are unaware of the symptoms are made aware. Have the treatment and brag about it.........good luck Monday.