Golf Cheats

[full_throttle]

I genuinly want my handicap reduced, but for some silly reason regardless of how well I'm playing something goes wrong during the 18 holes of competition, not always at the end, sometimes the first couple other times the middle stretch. I know I can score under my handicap as I have done so before in friendlies and from the general play tees.

My only reason for entering the competitions atm is to get a cut, I'd be happy just to get 0.4 cut the way it's going

 

[Mungoscorner]

I genuinly want my handicap reduced, but for some silly reason regardless of how well I'm playing something goes wrong during the 18 holes of competition, not always at the end, sometimes the first couple other times the middle stretch. I know I can score under my handicap as I have done so before in friendlies and from the general play tees.

My only reason for entering the competitions atm is to get a cut, I'd be happy just to get 0.4 cut the way it's going

You never seem to have any bad holes when we're playing matchplay,i shoot 2 under gross and we halve the match,tut tut.

 

[timhowe]

Yoour handical is therefore wrong...........

 

[rosecott]

Allegedly, the average club golfer should equal or beat their handicap approx 3 times per year.

Another myth - what the stats say is that Cat 3 players are expected to play to SSS+2 or better between 16 and 30% of the time - not in a year.

 

[Hobbit]

Allegedly, the average club golfer should equal or beat their handicap approx 3 times per year.

Another myth - what the stats say is that Cat 3 players are expected to play to SSS+2 or better between 16 and 30% of the time - not in a year.

Get yourself down the club, or HDID, and check the Cat 3's at your club for the summer league, and thro' last winter, and see how many of them fit the 'stat' you post.

What you'll find is up to a third of Cat 3's will post those scores but not the same ones each time. I think you misunderstood the stat.

 

[JustOne]

The problem with people scoring 45+ points is that sooner or later everyone has a good day. Fragger, the other week, playing off 23 scored 29 points on the front 9. Playing off 9, the other week I scored 49 - ok not in competition but..

You shot 4 under par?


With regard to the original post about the stableford being won with 45 points, perhaps you should ask the club secretary to have prizes for the different categories, or certainly for those who play off single figures.

 

[chris661]

Yoour handical is therefore wrong...........

Why?

Surely the system is a bit like the world ranking it is a kind of average, some days you will do better other days you won't.

 

[Smiffy]

Surely the system is a bit like the world ranking it is a kind of average, some days you will do better other days you won't.

But there is a big difference when you look at tour players and think "he could shoot a 72 today, or he could shoot a 65".
There are plenty of people I know who you can put money on before they tee off, saying "they are going to have 36 points or more" and that bet would be a "banker".

To them, shooting 36 points is a bad day. They are continually looking for 40 points plus, and normally get it. And still moan about how many putts they missed.

 

[Mungoscorner]

Yoour handical is therefore wrong...........

Why?

Surely the system is a bit like the world ranking it is a kind of average, some days you will do better other days you won't.

Wrong,your handicap should be what you are capable of playing to,and not what you average on a week to week basis.
Why should low handicap golfers,be handicapped,and unable to win Stableford comps ? Seems more than a little unjust,that the harder you try,and the more time and effort you put in,the less likely you are to win anything.

 

[chris661]

Yoour handical is therefore wrong...........

Why?

Surely the system is a bit like the world ranking it is a kind of average, some days you will do better other days you won't.

Wrong,your handicap should be what you are capable of playing to,and not what you average on a week to week basis.
Why should low handicap golfers,be handicapped,and unable to win Stableford comps ? Seems more than a little unjust,that the harder you try,and the more time and effort you put in,the less likely you are to win anything.

I am capable of going round my place in level par, done the front nine and back nine at different times. Does that mean my handicap should be scratch?

The whole idea of the handicap system is to level the field and stop one group of players winning everything in site.

 

[Mungoscorner]

Yoour handical is therefore wrong...........

Why?

Surely the system is a bit like the world ranking it is a kind of average, some days you will do better other days you won't.

Wrong,your handicap should be what you are capable of playing to,and not what you average on a week to week basis.
Why should low handicap golfers,be handicapped,and unable to win Stableford comps ? Seems more than a little unjust,that the harder you try,and the more time and effort you put in,the less likely you are to win anything.

I am capable of going round my place in level par, done the front nine and back nine at different times. Does that mean my handicap should be scratch?

The whole idea of the handicap system is to level the field and stop one group of players winning everything in site.

So,you've won a competition at your home club,by shooting level par ?
If the answer to that question is yes,then why shouldn't you be playing off scratch or low single figures ?
I used to go around my last clubs course,in level par or better,almost every time i played.When it was a comp,and we played off the whites,it was more like 74-77.
How can the handicapping system be anything except "laughable" when it allows somebody to shoot net 55's and 54 Stableford points.This should never happen.

 

[chris661]

So,you've won a competition at your home club,by shooting level par ?
If the answer to that question is yes,then why shouldn't you be playing off scratch or low single figures ?
I used to go around my last clubs course,in level par or better,almost every time i played.When it was a comp,and we played off the whites,it was more like 74-77.
How can the handicapping system be anything except "laughable" when it allows somebody to shoot net 55's and 54 Stableford points.This should never happen.

So now I have to have done it in a competition or am capable of it which is it?

I agree the system is flawed but what do you suggest to change it to?

 

[Mungoscorner]

So,you've won a competition at your home club,by shooting level par ?
If the answer to that question is yes,then why shouldn't you be playing off scratch or low single figures ?
I used to go around my last clubs course,in level par or better,almost every time i played.When it was a comp,and we played off the whites,it was more like 74-77.
How can the handicapping system be anything except "laughable" when it allows somebody to shoot net 55's and 54 Stableford points.This should never happen.

So now I have to have done it in a competition or am capable of it which is it?

I agree the system is flawed but what do you suggest to change it to?

Of course you have to have done it in a comp,what you shoot when having a knock off the yellow tee's with your mates,is irrelevant.A course should play harder in competitions.

Player A,is a 3 handicap golfer,who is capable on a "good" day of shooting level par,or maybe 1 or 2 under par,once or twice a year.Most Sundays he's happy to have played to handicap.

Player B,is an 18 handicap golfer,who is capable of playing to 12 on a good day,and 9 or 10 on a very good day.Most Sundays,he bemoans his luck,if he scores less than 38 or 39 Stableford points.

I bet,that this reflects the situation at most golf clubs across the country,i've been a member of several,and this was the norm at all of them.

 

[chris661]

So,you've won a competition at your home club,by shooting level par ?
If the answer to that question is yes,then why shouldn't you be playing off scratch or low single figures ?
I used to go around my last clubs course,in level par or better,almost every time i played.When it was a comp,and we played off the whites,it was more like 74-77.
How can the handicapping system be anything except "laughable" when it allows somebody to shoot net 55's and 54 Stableford points.This should never happen.

So now I have to have done it in a competition or am capable of it which is it?

I agree the system is flawed but what do you suggest to change it to?

Of course you have to have done it in a comp,what you shoot when having a knock off the yellow tee's with your mates,is irrelevant.A course should play harder in competitions.

Player A,is a 3 handicap golfer,who is capable on a "good" day of shooting level par,or maybe 1 or 2 under par,once or twice a year.Most Sundays he's happy to have played to handicap.

Player B,is an 18 handicap golfer,who is capable of playing to 12 on a good day,and 9 or 10 on a very good day.Most Sundays,he bemoans his luck,if he scores less than 38 or 39 Stableford points.

I bet,that this reflects the situation at most golf clubs across the country,i've been a member of several,and this was the norm at all of them.

I agree with you on that part about the system being flawed but how do you change it?

 

[Swinger]

The Handicap system is fine.

Any system you could replace it with would be just as flawed and just as open to abuse.

Can't win Stablefords? Don't play in them or get better. Granted when you get better you handicap will drop too.

Why Cat 1 golfers would worry about winning a Stableford event is beyond me although at my club it has happened a lot even this year. Just get out there and play.

An 18 H/C maybe unhappy with 38 points in certain cases but it is them and not the system that is at fault. If they were shooting the scores in proper events they wouldn't be off 18 but maybe we are forgetting the bad patches every golfer goes through and only remembering the good bits.

 

[EZprophet]

The Handicap system is fine.

Any system you could replace it with would be just as flawed and just as open to abuse.

Can't win Stablefords? Don't play in them or get better. Granted when you get better you handicap will drop too.

Why Cat 1 golfers would worry about winning a Stableford event is beyond me although at my club it has happened a lot even this year. Just get out there and play.

An 18 H/C maybe unhappy with 38 points in certain cases but it is them and not the system that is at fault. If they were shooting the scores in proper events they wouldn't be off 18 but maybe we are forgetting the bad patches every golfer goes through and only remembering the good bits.

I pretty much disagree with everything you have said here mate.

I think the handicap system is massively flawed.

You are right that almost any other handicap system you come up with would be open to abuse in some way or another but that is not the problem with the current system. The problem is that it is completely biased towards higher handicapers purely down to the maths and the probabilities of it all.

Saying "don't play stablefords or get better" really doesn't make sense at all as the problem is that the better you get, the harder it is to win a stableford!! I also don't understand why you prefer to have people not playing in your clubs stablefords than making a fairer system so that everyone can enjoy them and have chance at winning.

I also don't understand why you think a Cat 1 player should be less interested in winning a stableford than higher handicappers... I for one would love to be able to compete with players off all abilities on a level playing field and win the tournament because I was the "best" (relatively obviously) on the day...

And your final point blaming it on the players themselves is certainly fair in some cases (the players who handicap protect etc) but there are a huge portion of players who do not abuse the system at all, but who are viewed as "bandits" due to the fact that the system is flawed and favours certain types of players (namely the inconsistent high handicapper who is capable of shooting 15 shots above his handicap aswell as 10 shots below his handicap...)

 

[sweatysock41]

How would you suggest a system could cover a 25 shot spread? They try to do it via the amount you are cut when you play below handicap remember if a cat 4 player plays 5 shots below CSS he gets cut 2 shots where as a cat 1 will only get cut .5.

No matter what system is in place it will be said by someone to favour one category golfer or another, there is no such thing as a perfect system - that would be the holy grail of handicapping.

Raise any issues you have to Congu via your handicap sec's, they will listen but that doesn't mean they will change things.

 

[EZprophet]

How would you suggest a system could cover a 25 shot spread? They try to do it via the amount you are cut when you play below handicap remember if a cat 4 player plays 5 shots below CSS he gets cut 2 shots where as a cat 1 will only get cut .5.

No matter what system is in place it will be said by someone to favour one category golfer or another, there is no such thing as a perfect system - that would be the holy grail of handicapping.

Raise any issues you have to Congu via your handicap sec's, they will listen but that doesn't mean they will change things.

Why don't you think that a system could be created that wouldn't favour a certain category of handicap?

I've never looked at it properly but I reckon you could work out a system that is fair accross the board, or at least one thats fairer than the current one...

The problem with the current one is that it rewards players who are capable of shooting well below their handicap compared to the player who beats their handicap more often maybe, but not by as many shots...

I don't have the answer as to what the best system would be, but the very fact that the current one seems to have absolutely no basis on the maths and the probabilities of golf scoring is proof enough that there is a much better system out there, waiting to be designed...

 

[Swinger]

I don't have the answer as to what the best system would be, but the very fact that the current one seems to have absolutely no basis on the maths and the probabilities of golf scoring is proof enough that there is a much better system out there, waiting to be designed...

I'm guessing here but I'd bet CONGU do have stats and figures to back the system up.

It's not really just high handicap golfers who can throw in 40+ but I'd say its people improving. A good bulk of cat 1's have done most of the improving they have to do while the bulk of cat 4's haven't.
I guess the system could be quicker to catch the improvers but consistant play under H/C does seem to get dealt with and then there is also Handicap Reviews which can be carried out at any time.

Stopping people improving wouldn't be the best course of action but at least then we could see who really abuses the system.


I have looked at my playing record for the last few years and there are a few -4's and better I bet it would be the same for most (.1's back glore!). It's when someone can nearly be on a course record and not win when it gets a little bit beyond a joke.


In my previous post when I said 'granted you improve your handicap will drop too' that was an admition that they may well struggle to compete in any stableford events in the future if the scoring is 40+ but hopefully they would have won one or two on the way.
Also as said above I still think they could post a 40+ here and there too.