Going to the Gym... over 40s

[Wolf]

I did try and find a cheaper wife online, but apparently the Thai mail order scheme is no longer active...

They've actually got it in Aldi here for £11 should have grabbed a bag when I saw it yesterday.

But keep eye out online for brands like Bulk Powders or Protein works they do some cracking flavours at good prices often with deals on to.

 

[Dan2501]

Its the social media lifestyle we now have 1 scroll through Instagram and all you see is what people think is the perfect physical specimen, or movies everyone knows how big Marvel is now women fawn over Chris Hemsworth as Thor, so men want to be like him but can't afford the level of PT, private chef and hours a day he gets to achieve those results so the average man turns to gear to do it quickly not knowing really what hes doing.

As for Mr O, literally can't stand the open division now it used to be about becoming the ultimate specimen look at Frank Zane he was around 197lbs when he won and that was a phenomenal physique, at that weight he wouldn't even place in the 212 Category now let alone open class. Dorian always be my favourite because of his attitude and approach the legs on the guy were immense yet he never believed in squatting because though they made him stronger they didn't make him thicker so he binned then and did different variations on presses and lunges. Flex Wheeler was phenomenal as well but his peak was Dorians dominance. Sadly you cannot compete now unless your just pure mass, all forms of symmetry, full muscle bellies and movement is gone. Curry was literally the best of a bad bunch last year, the top class with likes of Heath, Curry, Winklaar, Ramy etc is horrendous yet supposedly the best the world has. They're all so bloated now with Insulin and HGH making their abdomen distended it goes against everything the sport was designed to be. The best in modern times is Flex Lewis 7 straight 212 Mr O titles because hebwaa in the lower class meant he didn't have take the IGF1 or HGH so still had a tight waist, though I've seen reports he has an Open class invite this year, if he can come in around 220lbs with the conditioning he brings usually at 212 then he would wipe the floor with the bigger guys, but in order for that to happen the judges need balls to acknowledge full package depsite his weight is superior to the mass monsters.

My worry about the guys you mention taking things like Tren for holiday muscle is that really don't have a clue what it is or does, or how to correctly cycle it. Tren is 5x stronger than testosterone, they think they can jab it and just come off without doing a PCT then wonder why everything disappeared and why they feel so crappy to. Don't even get me started on people that think tablets steroids are safer be a they're much worse...

Frank Zane's physique is the dream physique in my mind, what a physique he had. Was listening to a podcast interview of his the other day and a fascinating guy, love Frank Zane. Dorian is my favourite though, more for his personalty but brought a whole new package to the Olympia, the ridiculous size but with crazy conditioning, so impressive. Shawn Ray another I really like, and love listening to him talk about the sport, so passionate and a hell of a physique.

Just amazes me that none of the top guys have seen the glaring gap and not decided to focus on conditioning. If any of the top guys came in with anything close to 90s conditioning it'd be a cake walk, the fact Phil won his last couple with the big bubble gut is a worrying sign of what Bodybuilding has become. You only need to look at a guy like Hadi Choopan whose physique doesn't compare to the great champions but came into 2019 shredded in really good condition and picked up 3rd. If a Curry, Heath or Winklaar could come in shredded with a tapered down waist and smaller gut they'd walk it.

Oh yeah, it's scary what guys are taking without the necessary knowledge of, like you say, how to cycle off properly, and how to do a cycle properly in the first place. These aren't drugs you just take for a bit and stop, can totally mess with your endocrine system. Oh and yeah, don't like needles so decide to ruin their liver with orals instead. Baffling.

 

[Mudball]

I just had some ice cream... kids don’t finish their dinner ...

 

[Wolf]

Frank Zane's physique is the dream physique in my mind, what a physique he had. Was listening to a podcast interview of his the other day and a fascinating guy, love Frank Zane. Dorian is my favourite though, more for his personalty but brought a whole new package to the Olympia, the ridiculous size but with crazy conditioning, so impressive. Shawn Ray another I really like, and love listening to him talk about the sport, so passionate and a hell of a physique.

Just amazes me that none of the top guys have seen the glaring gap and not decided to focus on conditioning. If any of the top guys came in with anything close to 90s conditioning it'd be a cake walk, the fact Phil won his last couple with the big bubble gut is a worrying sign of what Bodybuilding has become. You only need to look at a guy like Hadi Choopan whose physique doesn't compare to the great champions but came into 2019 shredded in really good condition and picked up 3rd. If a Curry, Heath or Winklaar could come in shredded with a tapered down waist and smaller gut they'd walk it.

Oh yeah, it's scary what guys are taking without the necessary knowledge of, like you say, how to cycle off properly, and how to do a cycle properly in the first place. These aren't drugs you just take for a bit and stop, can totally mess with your endocrine system. Oh and yeah, don't like needles so decide to ruin their liver with orals instead. Baffling.

Zane would go down as the ultimate physique for me, symmetrical, deep cuts, small waist it was so good it needed no special lighting or touch up photography to show it. Dorian created something new never seen before it was almost superhuman and freaky he managed to get the ultimate conditioning of Frank Zane but with so much more incredible mass. Nobody in modern era can touch him, ita a disgrace that Heath & Coleman got more than him and shows how bad a direction the sport took. Shaun Roden was the stand out winner of the last 15-20 years as at least he had a tapered shape narrowing at the waist, more symmetry and condition than all ither recent winners, had he been able to compete last year he would have won again but alas we got Fluffy Curry..

Hadi was the best on stage but politics prevent his win, though i think if Flex does compete and he brings in his usual condition with added size he has to win and that would do the sport so much good, and would fill that gap you mentioned.

I'm just back from gym now and the part time gear takers stand out like a sore thumb, they have no idea what they're doing how to stack the compounds properly to achieve results without causing issues makes me want to shake them. They think they're being smart taking Oral steroids but the double pass through on the liver is so hepatoxic you can literally see their skin breaking out in spots and sores where the body can't take break the compounds down adequately. They simply don't understand they injection is far safer in the body with far less side effects and if you're gonna do it that's the way to go.

 

[huds1475]

I just go for a perv.

So not at all like golf

 

[Deleted member 1740]

There’s 2 guys both blind and use guide sticks who use the gym I go to, when I saw them a few weeks ago it gave me the kick up the arse to get in and made me realise there’s really no excuse for me not going.

 

[User62651]

Can you bodybuilding experts tell me about insulin abuse? I take insulin because I have to and I can't see how a non diabetic taking insulin to get gym gains works - I can see how you might be able to get more carbs absorbed into the body but why are they not going hypoglycaemic when they take it? Is it therefore advantageous in bodybuilding to be diabetic?

 

[Orikoru]

Is it normal for your weight to fluctuate wildly in the space of a week? The other week I was around 12 st 11 on Sunday night, 12 st 5 by Weds night, 12 st 9 by Saturday.. does everyone else get this?? Maybe our scales are broken?

 

[Wolf]

Can you bodybuilding experts tell me about insulin abuse? I take insulin because I have to and I can't see how a non diabetic taking insulin to get gym gains works - I can see how you might be able to get more carbs absorbed into the body but why are they not going hypoglycaemic when they take it? Is it therefore advantageous in bodybuilding to be diabetic?

Obviously you'll know a lot of how it helps control your diet, break down of macronutrients so as what to avoid etc. Bodybuilders will use it in a totally different way and different timings depending on their training regimes.

Bodybuilders take insulin to increase stamina and improve endurance. It's also used to increase muscle bulk as it stimulates glycogen formation, which feeds the muscles during a workout., Insulin works to prevent the breakdown of muscle protein, which also helps a person bulk up.

That paragraph above is essentially how they use it, however it doesn't make it safe for them because unlike you who needs it medically they don't, so end up with an excess that can't flush through system hence the bloating etc, there's a bit more to it than that but that's essentially how it works. When you see deaths of young bodybuilders everyone jumps on the steroids killed them band wagon. But the truth is if they're taking injectable steroids that is NOT what killed them as the body and endocrine system can break them down, its more likely to be the other compounds they've taken such as to much insulin or the oral steroids that do a double pass through the liver and break it down.

Believe or not there are safe ways to do steroids but people don't choose those routes, they do it under the counter and have no idea what they're getting.

 

[Dibby]

Obviously you'll know a lot of how it helps control your diet, break down of macronutrients so as what to avoid etc. Bodybuilders will use it in a totally different way and different timings depending on their training regimes.

Bodybuilders take insulin to increase stamina and improve endurance. It's also used to increase muscle bulk as it stimulates glycogen formation, which feeds the muscles during a workout., Insulin works to prevent the breakdown of muscle protein, which also helps a person bulk up.

That paragraph above is essentially how they use it, however it doesn't make it safe for them because unlike you who needs it medically they don't, so end up with an excess that can't flush through system hence the bloating etc, there's a bit more to it than that but that's essentially how it works. When you see deaths of young bodybuilders everyone jumps on the steroids killed them band wagon. But the truth is if they're taking injectable steroids that is NOT what killed them as the body and endocrine system can break them down, its more likely to be the other compounds they've taken such as to much insulin or the oral steroids that do a double pass through the liver and break it down.

Believe or not there are safe ways to do steroids but people don't choose those routes, they do it under the counter and have no idea what they're getting.

I get what you mean, but just to be pedantic, I would say "safer" rather than "safe".

Any medication comes with risks, people forget that even taking an Ibuprofen is a risk and can do damage to your stomach and liver, but you can do things to minimuse the risk, like not take on an empty stomach, stay hydrated, consume appropriate doses. Steroids are the same, there is always some risk, but most death and serious damage comes from misuse (such as ridiculous doses, and not following full cycles, with post cycle therapy) or using supporting compounds which are more dangerous.

 

[Wolf]

Is it normal for your weight to fluctuate wildly in the space of a week? The other week I was around 12 st 11 on Sunday night, 12 st 5 by Weds night, 12 st 9 by Saturday.. does everyone else get this?? Maybe our scales are broken?

Absolutely normal. Especially in the ranges you mention. That sort of fluctuations is purely down to water retention. Which is down to how little water you've consumed over that tine in conjuction with what you may be eating.

Simple example Sunday to Wednesday you may have been eating relatively healthy, drinking plenty of fluids so the body is working correctly and flushing everything through as you're adequately hydrated. But Thursday through Saturday you may have eaten poorly or maybe a higher amount of carbs but at same time drunk less good fluids, maybe you had a couple beers, coffees or energy drinks. The body realise you've put crap into it and not hydrated enough so it can't flush through so it needs hold more water to make sure the organs still function properly. Hence you get water retention and a fluctuation of a few lbs..

Women are the best example often they will be around 5-7lbs heavier at the start of their menstrual cycle than any other time of the month, as the body holds more water readying itself for the trauma of their periods.

 

[Wolf]

I get what you mean, but just to be pedantic, I would say "safer" rather than "safe".

Any medication comes with risks, people forget that even taking an Ibuprofen is a risk and can do damage to your stomach and liver, but you can do things to minimuse the risk, like not take on an empty stomach, stay hydrated, consume appropriate doses. Steroids are the same, there is always some risk, but most death and serious damage comes from misuse (such as ridiculous doses, and not following full cycles, with post cycle therapy) or using supporting compounds which are more dangerous.

You say at the risk of being pedantic but you're spot on, not pedantic at all.. Safer rather than safe is a good way of describing it. Which is why people doing them should have blood work done befire, during and after cycles etc.

Your last paragraph also spot on and what i alluded to in earlier posts re: cycles and PCT. People go for the quick fix without true knowledge is the main issue.

 

[Orikoru]

Absolutely normal. Especially innthe ranges you mention. That sort of fluctuations is purely down to water retention. Which is down to how little water you've consumed over that tine in conjuction with what you may be eating.

Simple example Sunday to Wednesday you may have been eating relatively healthy, drinking plenty of fluids sonthe body is working correctly and flushing everything through as you're adequately hydrated. But Thursday through Saturday you may have eaten poorly or maybe a higher amount of carbs but at same time drunk less good fluids, maybe you had a couple beers, coffees or energy drinks. The body realise you've put crap into it and not hydrated enough so it can't flush through so it needs hold more water to make sure the organs still function properly. Hence you get water retention and a fluctuation of a few lbs..

Women are the best example often they will be around 5-7lbs heavier at the start of their menstrual cycle than any other time of the month, as the body holds more water readying itself for the trauma of their periods.

Makes sense. I never, ever drink enough water. I just cannot force myself to neck water when I don't feel thirsty.

I find it funny when my wife excitedly tells me she has lost 2lbs that week - obviously I have to congratulate her but inside I'm thinking I lose or gain 2lbs on a daily basis without even thinking about it, lol.

 

[Dan2501]

Zane would go down as the ultimate physique for me, symmetrical, deep cuts, small waist it was so good it needed no special lighting or touch up photography to show it. Dorian created something new never seen before it was almost superhuman and freaky he managed to get the ultimate conditioning of Frank Zane but with so much more incredible mass. Nobody in modern era can touch him, ita a disgrace that Heath & Coleman got more than him and shows how bad a direction the sport took. Shaun Roden was the stand out winner of the last 15-20 years as at least he had a tapered shape narrowing at the waist, more symmetry and condition than all ither recent winners, had he been able to compete last year he would have won again but alas we got Fluffy Curry..

Pretty much, what a physique, that picture of Zane with his hands above his head is one of those iconic bodybuilding pictures, just like the black and white ones of Dorian. For sure, Dorian in '93 was just scary. That era in the early 90s was SO stacked - Dorian, Levrone, Flex, Ray, El Sonbaty. So good. Flex Wheeler had an incredible physique, was described by Shawn Ray as one of "the laziest bodybuilders" - imagine what he could have looked like if he worked like Dorian or Shawn. Shame we don't have that sort of level now, any of those guys would win the Olympia in the current era.

Hadi was the best on stage but politics prevent his win, though i think if Flex does compete and he brings in his usual condition with added size he has to win and that would do the sport so much good, and would fill that gap you mentioned.

Agreed, looking forward to seeing what Flex brings. Get the hype every year, but do think 2020 could be a really strong Olympia line-up. Rhoden's back, Flex's debut, potential return of Heath and Kai, Big Ramy looking dieted down and drawn out - think we'll get a good idea of what he's bringing at the Arnold, interested to see what Curry brings to defend his title, going to be interesting.

I'm just back from gym now and the part time gear takers stand out like a sore thumb, they have no idea what they're doing how to stack the compounds properly to achieve results without causing issues makes me want to shake them. They think they're being smart taking Oral steroids but the double pass through on the liver is so hepatoxic you can literally see their skin breaking out in spots and sores where the body can't take break the compounds down adequately. They simply don't understand they injection is far safer in the body with far less side effects and if you're gonna do it that's the way to go.

It's absolutely gross and pretty worrying that people can get hold of these things without the pre-requisite knowledge of how to use them properly, so dangerous.

That paragraph above is essentially how they use it, however it doesn't make it safe for them because unlike you who needs it medically they don't, so end up with an excess that can't flush through system hence the bloating etc, there's a bit more to it than that but that's essentially how it works. When you see deaths of young bodybuilders everyone jumps on the steroids killed them band wagon. But the truth is if they're taking injectable steroids that is NOT what killed them as the body and endocrine system can break them down, its more likely to be the other compounds they've taken such as to much insulin or the oral steroids that do a double pass through the liver and break it down.

Also - diuretics. Unbelievably dangerous, a number of bodybuilders (like Benaziza) have died as a result of taking them.

 

[hovis]

It's absolutely gross and pretty worrying that people can get hold of these things without the pre-requisite knowledge of how to use them properly, so dangerous.
.

but you can go to the shop and buy 8 cans of fosters and 20 cigs every night and no one will say a word.

if someone put a gun to my head and asked me to drink 4 cans of beer a night and 10 cigs for 8 weeks or take some steroids. I'd take the steroids.

pisses me off when kids get hold of them with zero knowledge and create this stigma that is attached to them.

 

[need_my_wedge]

I am not rubbishing everything with one brush. I think my mind is probably tainted by the days of steroids and folks injecting themselves with stuff.
On the topic.. is there a real world view on protien / carb killer bars. Increasingly seeing Grenade Carb Killer and Nakd bars sitting alongside Chocolates at the petrol pump as an impulse buy

I'm no expert here at all, but for the last 4 weeks, mrs wedge and myself have been doing a high protein low carb diet. Not low carb as in keto diet, but basically cut out bread, biscuits and sweets, reduced beer, rice and potatoes, whilst at the same time increased the protein intake. We use the Nature Valley protein bars, largely because they are a lot cheaper at costco than most of the other ones, and are actually quite tasty. The diet now contains a lot of salad, meat, nuts, prawns, cheese and water. In the 4 weeks to date, I haven't lost a lot of weight, approx 3 kg, but I have shed 2 inches off both waist and belly, and have a visibly trimmer figure with trousers fitting much better. Also find now that I don't feel the need to snack during the day, and no real desire to eat sweets.

 

[Wolf]

Pretty much, what a physique, that picture of Zane with his hands above his head is one of those iconic bodybuilding pictures, just like the black and white ones of Dorian. For sure, Dorian in '93 was just scary. That era in the early 90s was SO stacked - Dorian, Levrone, Flex, Ray, El Sonbaty. So good. Flex Wheeler had an incredible physique, was described by Shawn Ray as one of "the laziest bodybuilders" - imagine what he could have looked like if he worked like Dorian or Shawn. Shame we don't have that sort of level now, any of those guys would win the Olympia in the current era.



Agreed, looking forward to seeing what Flex brings. Get the hype every year, but do think 2020 could be a really strong Olympia line-up. Rhoden's back, Flex's debut, potential return of Heath and Kai, Big Ramy looking dieted down and drawn out - think we'll get a good idea of what he's bringing at the Arnold, interested to see what Curry brings to defend his title, going to be interesting.



It's absolutely gross and pretty worrying that people can get hold of these things without the pre-requisite knowledge of how to use them properly, so dangerous.



Also - diuretics. Unbelievably dangerous, a number of bodybuilders (like Benaziza) have died as a result of taking them.

That image of Zane is iconic and if Da Vinci were to recreate the vetruvian made in the modern world it would likely be an image akin to that of Zane in that pose such is was his physique.

Dorian was something else and possibly was the catalyst for what we have now as nobody knew how to beat his size with equal conditioning, so we've been led down the bloated path. Hopefully this year we see the change as I believe that's what would have come thanks to Rodens win in 2018 had he been able to compete and defend the title in 2019, instead we got Brandon Curry as the best of an horrendous bunch. Nasser El Sonbaty is a great shout he was so underated and had it all, I've worked with a lad called Owen Powell who absolutely idolised him check him out on Instagram he has a very classic look, missed out on his pro card as judges told him he didn't have enough mass depsite having great condition and classic looks, that's the world the judges are in now ?

I must be one of the only people that doesn't want Kai ti return, he should have beat Heath a long time ago but Heath was the judges golden boy, I think Kai returning would add nothing to his legacy especially if Heath is on the same stage it will detract from the overall event. It would be a sideshow like the recent invites for Levrone & Wheeler. Though Wheeler won't compete anywhere again now he had a leg amputated. Im looking forward to seeing Flex v Chopan those 2 will bring the best package without a doubt compared to the mass monsters.

Agree your last 2 points people are doing these things in gyms with no real knowledge of cycle, stacks , how to get the right compounds for their own bodies etc. They're merely relying on unsolicited advice from others that equally have no real knowledge or experience. I've used my knowledge a lot over the years and people need to understand what work needs putting in before even contemplating doing a cycle.

 

[chellie]

PT session today. New things today for me were RDL's and Clean and Jerks. Both were only with the barbell though. Plenty of protein today. Some leftover chicken for lunch, just scoffed some low fat cottage cheese and then will be a chicken sheesh tonight as I'm out to a fabulous local Turkish restaurant with some of my friends from golf.

 

[Wolf]

PT session today. New things today for me were RDL's and Clean and Jerks. Both were only with the barbell though. Plenty of protein today. Some leftover chicken for lunch, just scoffed some low fat cottage cheese and then will be a chicken sheesh tonight as I'm out to a fabulous local Turkish restaurant with some of my friends from golf.

RDL's are one of my personal favourite exercises. Good to see your PT is putting in some compound moves and multi joint movements, not enough get their clients doing that sort of work.

Also a nice chicken grilled shish kebab lovely im jealous..

 

[Mudball]

PT session today. New things today for me were RDL's and Clean and Jerks. Both were only with the barbell though. Plenty of protein today. Some leftover chicken for lunch, just scoffed some low fat cottage cheese and then will be a chicken sheesh tonight as I'm out to a fabulous local Turkish restaurant with some of my friends from golf.

RDLs!!!.... i admit this thread has taught me a lot of new jargons. My eyes had glazed over when my PT was talking about Isometrics and Compound exercises. Now i am realising that this is common parlance. Maybe I shlud give it more than a diddly squat