GM - Where are the ladies

[Swinglowandslow]

This is why this subject can't be discussed on the forum.

Any dissent to the forum consensus is considered a "strop".

I was agreeing with your opinion about women watching tennis not questioning your attitude. I just hoped you'd be able to take the small mental leap to understand why rather than needing me to point it out to you.

This is twice you have asked me to make a mental leap. I truly don't know what you are on about or what this leap is.
Why don't you spell it out. At the moment, I don't know what needs to be spelled out about me saying women watch more tennis than any other sport.
It's not as if there is more tennis on TV than golf, except for the June fortnight.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Is that because they don't want to..or because they can't?
I don't know.. has the research been done .?
How can the LET "bring an audience with them" if there's no audience because nobody can watch it.?
As I said, classic Catch 22 and I don't know the way out of it.

Both @Liverpoolphil and I played a sport that has decent participation numbers but just could not grab TV viewers, hockey. They tried, it just did not work. Fine each Olympics but no more than that. Highly skilled players, male and female, but the TV numbers are just not there. You don't have a right to be on TV, you don't have the right to earn a living from a sport because you are good at it.

Sky show ladies golf and they will have precise viewing numbers. If they don't show more then it's because the numbers don't justify it. It's a harsh reality but it is reality. If people want more coverage then they need others to watch, build the numbers up. That's the only way to increase the coverage further.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Meghan is fantastic and I have so much respect for the way she is able to persevere in the face of the nonsense she gets whenever she raises these issues. Good on you for posting it. As you say, it was worth a try.

I supported Meghan's post in my reply (#47) and tried pointing out that there are magazine options specifically for the ladies game. The fact that their content isn't up to scratch and they are deaf to readers opinions on the matter is perhaps a different topic. I think another issue is the underlying bias that LP has of SKy golf coverage irrespective of the event being shown and the fact that he doesn't like the way the game is covered, even though Sky are only showing the feed that is available and doing the best they can with that.

Womens sport is in the minority but BT sport show a fair amount of womens football, Sky do covers womens cricket, the netball superleage and a womens LET, LPGS and their major golf events. Womens sport is chipping away bit by bit to become more mainstream and of course it needs more coverage on TV, social media and the press. That and more and more initiatives at grass roots in all sports to make the game attractive to youngsters and get them hooked early and then have the network for them to continue to play whatever sport it is as they get older

 

[Imurg]

Both @Liverpoolphil and I played a sport that has decent participation numbers but just could not grab TV viewers, hockey. They tried, it just did not work. Fine each Olympics but no more than that. Highly skilled players, male and female, but the TV numbers are just not there. You don't have a right to be on TV, you don't have the right to earn a living from a sport because you are good at it.

Sky show ladies golf and they will have precise viewing numbers. If they don't show more then it's because the numbers don't justify it. It's a harsh reality but it is reality. If people want more coverage then they need others to watch, build the numbers up. That's the only way to increase the coverage further.

There is a subtle difference though - no hockey is shown. None at all.
Mens or Ladies ( with the exception of the Olympics).
Plenty of Mens golf is shown (Europe) but barely any Ladies.

 

[fundy]

There is a subtle difference though - no hockey is shown. None at all.
Mens or Ladies ( with the exception of the Olympics).
Plenty of Mens golf is shown (Europe) but barely any Ladies.

is it barely any ladies golf shown? seems to me theres been a large increase in how much is shown the last year or two and outside of tennis i struggle to think of a womens sport that will have had more airtime on sky sports this year, and on several occasions theyve shown the womens golf above the mens

 

[Deleted member 15344]

There is a subtle difference though - no hockey is shown. None at all.
Mens or Ladies ( with the exception of the Olympics).
Plenty of Mens golf is shown (Europe) but barely any Ladies.

Don’t they show every ladies Golf Major , plus the Solhiem Cup plus a number of LPGA events and the odd LET event

They have a golf channel , they broadcast the event that will give them the most viewers. The LET has struggled due to a lack of sponsers because it’s not something that attracts viewers and people through the gates. You only have to see the crowds at Woburn for the Women’s British Open there compared to the Men’s comp there. Sometimes reality has to shine through and a subscription broadcast company will show what gets them tbe viewers and hence the revenue

 

[Dibby]

I'm so reluctant to post on this thread as painful experience tells me its impossible to penetrate the ignorance and bias held within the forum on the subject.

However, I think there's a very important point hiding behind the highlighted part. You're in danger of actually stumbling onto something. So why not have a long hard think and hazard a guess why it might be?

Why not just get straight to the point, and enlighten us, it would be easier for everyone involved. For those that don't want a serious discussion ignore them, otherwise the mysterious approach just risks diluting any perception seriousness and sincerity of discussion.

That said, whilst I think availability of certain women's sports may play some part, I don't think it is the only or even the biggest reason. I don't know why it is considered taboo, but the fact is men and women are different. They have different characteristics, interests, motivations, behaviours etc.. Some differences are obvious, physically men tend to be taller, heavier etc... Some we cannot see.

As an illustration of this, moving away from women's sports to remove the variable of availability why do you think certain film or tv show genres are more popular with each gender?

 

[USER1999]

One of the pod casts I listen to was with the tour director of the LPGA, and an item discussed was running the LPGA on different days to the mens, so they are not in direct competition over the weekend. Whilst not ideal, it might help build a following.

 

[fundy]

One of the pod casts I listen to was with the tour director of the LPGA, and an item discussed was running the LPGA on different days to the mens, so they are not in direct competition over the weekend. Whilst not ideal, it might help build a following.

utterly amazed they havent tried this tbh, 3 day comp mon - wed be perfect

 

[Lord Tyrion]

There is a subtle difference though - no hockey is shown. None at all.
Mens or Ladies ( with the exception of the Olympics).
Plenty of Mens golf is shown (Europe) but barely any Ladies.

There isn't as much women's golf shown, not even a discussion there, but there is coverage. If that coverage isn't knocking up the figures then it wont push the TV bods into showing more.

We talk about sky most of the time but there are other channels out there. If the product brings in figures and advertisers then the TV companies will show it. It's that simple.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

utterly amazed they havent tried this tbh, 3 day comp mon - wed be perfect

I’m fairly confident LET at least has tried shifting days for midweek finishes etc but I presume had a negative impact on figures as who is around to watch.

I’d like to see more of the wed matches that have happened this year rather than proams e.g. skins matches, various pairs formats both on pga and lpga. I know they’re not easy to film but even if it was you tube style on their account I think it would be good viewing and means closer following for players.

Expect it’s just working round the edges though as main tour coverage has to be the focus.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Crow answered it

He was accurate in respect of terrestrial TV, but not of Sky etc.
There is a lot of women's golf, and quite a bit of womens other sports on TV now.
And when the Olympics and similar come along, there is as much coverage of women's events as there is men's.
But I wasn't originally making any comment about women's sports being given coverage, I was talking about women watching tennis, as opposed to other sports.
Women generally do watch tennis more than any other sport, regardless of the gender of the players. And that was all I was saying, really.
But, as you think it down to opportunity, I am of the opinion that not a lot of women will watch other women's sports much, because women are not as interested in sport as men.
That's not being sexist, it's a fact.
But it is changing. Look at the last fifty years. As Society changes so does women/sport.

But it will change, not because of men's attitude changing ,but because women want to get more involved with sport.
How fast it will change is down to them. Nobody is stopping them.

 

[Dibby]

I actually agree with you. Re tennis. It's on free to air terrestrial telly so that'll be part of it. I also think the fact that the grand slams have men and women competing at the same time helps but, yes, it's not just that. No idea why, I avoid watching tennis as much as possible as I find it deadly dull. I did mention the Olympics.

The reasons why women don't participate in or like sport as much are complicated and the subject of a lot of study. Definitely not going into any of that here. But it is changing. That's why coverage is so important - the saying is that you have to see it in order to be it. Girls need to see that sport is for them as well as boys and to know they can aspire to do that for fun or to a high level and even professionally.

I don't think there's as much women's sport and especially golf as on TV as you think. 4%, apparently, of televised sport features women. I think that's probably an American stat but it makes the point. I watch a lot of golf, in particular, and try to follow women's golf as much as possible. Most events are not live on the telly here, some you get highlights late at night or during the day midweek. The LET in particular is rarely televised. Even the majors tend to play second fiddle to whatever run of the mill PGA tour event is on that week. I've frequently been scanning the schedules and checking the red button even looking for a big event only to find it's not on.

I don't think anything you've said on this is sexist at all. But there has been lots of sexism, mostly unconscious I think, from others on the thread.

I don't know if the last point includes me or not, but with the both points, engage with people on it. It doesn't need to be confrontational as usually this is counterproductive, but if both sides try to understand each other, or at least see their viewpoint, usually some ground is made, even if people ultimately disagree. Like you say a lot of it may be unconscious, so if peoples awareness of it isn't raised, things will never change.

Personally I think a lot of things go wrong like this when people push for blanket equality. Again it's a taboo topic for some reason, but its obvious that people are not equal in terms of various characteristics, be it gender, race, physical traits, intelligence, disabilities or whatever else. Instead of trying to make everything perfectly equal we should accept and embrace peoples differences and be looking at how we can treat everyone fairly. In some cases being fair will mean equal treatment, in others it won't, as in certain areas certain groups need a bit more or a bit less help.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

At my club we have approx 30-45 female members out of a total around 600 which is somewhere around 5-7% of the membership. I would say we are fairly typical of most clubs. From the fairly limited amount of golf I watch on TV I would guess that around 5-7% of the coverage on Sky etc is ladies golf.

 

[drdel]

As the UK's 'public ' broadcaster the BBC should show more ladies sport, golf especially.

Basing content on viewing figures will only grow a divergence as viewing polarises and minority sport vanish from the media.

My original post was just a prod at the GM's miserly coverage of ladies golf. it is an example and IMO, contributes to why ladies do not join Clubs even though golf is a highly social sport

 

[Deleted member 15344]

As the UK's 'public ' broadcaster the BBC should show more ladies sport, golf especially.

Basing content on viewing figures will only grow a divergence as viewing polarises and minority sport vanish from the media.

My original post was just a prod at the GM's miserly coverage of ladies golf. it is an example and IMO, contributes to why ladies do not join Clubs even though golf is a highly social sport

The question is what Ladies sport will it be able to show at a professional level

And that’s prob relevant for all the broadcasters- BBC used to show the Womens British Open and I believe they had highlights this year as Sky had the rights as they do for the LET

They show the Women’s FA Cup and Super league plus the World Cup and Euro Champs

The tennis is broadcasted for Wimbledon and French Open

Then they show the cycling , athletics and swimming when it’s the Worlds , Europeans and Commonwealths etc

Netball which I believe is one of the most popular in the UK is shown on Sky
Cricket is on sky

Rugby Union on BBC

Looking through the lists then it seems most of the main professional sports where women compete are broadcast on one of the channels - with hockey being the one that misses out

I think when it comes to golf it could be down to the clash with the men’s tournaments-

 

[HomerJSimpson]

As the UK's 'public ' broadcaster the BBC should show more ladies sport, golf especially.

Why? It only has key events (Wimbledon, Olympics etc) and no contract to show any live golf, including the mens game so what responsibility do they have to the ladies game? Sky with their dedicated channel have shown LET, LPGA, womens majors and the Solheim cup so showing a reasonable amount although you could argue they could always do more

 

[PJ87]

They are crap imo.

Tbh I don't think the men's one are much better.