GM - Where are the ladies

[Deleted member 15344]

Read this by Meghan MacLaren today...food for thought maybe??

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She is right and there is no reason why Ladies golfers can’t be highlighted within magazines etc

But - the magazines etc work as a business and they need people to buy the magazine - golfers will look for content that they see is relevant to them .

Wrongly IMO they want to copy and see all the drills etc of the leading men golfers - even though their game is more aligned to the ladies game

I don’t know how football mags work - do they have one dedicated to ladies football ?

But there should be no reason why Lady golfer shouldn’t be highlighted in magazines and have headlines and have sections in the publications.

I can only think they don’t because they don’t think it will appeal to their target audience

 

[Crow]

Old magazines from 30, 40 or 50 years ago were (slightly) better at including women, for instance Golf World had regular articles by women columnists.

Sad to say though that on the pile of magazines I'm currently going through there's a Golf World for Dec 1983 which features Jan Stephenson and tacky is the only word I can use to describe it, luckily though this article is an exception.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

There are dedicated publications for the ladies game so they are targeting their audience. I have no idea what the readership either in print or online for these magazines but I would suggest they have specific advertisers (clothing, equipment etc aimed specifically for the female golfer). Magazines are a business and have so having dedicated titles makes sense but as Meghan Maclaren points out, what is to stop it crossing over and being of interest to the male golfers.

I bet there are plenty on here that have the ladies US Open golf on no or have already flicked across to see some of the coverage, or even just the leaderboard so sub-consciously there is a latent interest. I can't see how it would do any harm for the male governed mags to pass a nodding glance to the ladies game, especially around the majors, and to tie in advertising (especially if the magazines come under the same publication house).

I think ultimately Meghan will be disappointed and their game will never get the attention she thinks it deserves the same as womens football, cricket etc will never compete in popularity with the mens game. It is just how it is

 

[DanFST]

Why can't women join the Mens tour? If the above stats are correct, they'd do quite well.

 

[Dibby]

Read this by Meghan MacLaren today...food for thought maybe??

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So personally I enjoy watching all golf, men, women, amateurs, juniors, whatever it may be. However, and this applies to all sports, not just golf, professional sports are entertainment, so the money in the sport is directly correlated to how much exposure a sport gets, and how many eyes it gets on it, not how good players stats are or how hard they work to be at the top of their game.

The first challenge for women's sports is that not many women watch sport, even those that play the same sport. This a general trend, I don't know why it is so, maybe that can be answered and changed, or maybe as a general demographic women are not that interested in watching sport, even if they enjoy participating.

The second challenge is that a lot of people who like to watch sports, enjoy the spectacle seeing those who are genetically gifted do things they cannot, unfortunately for women's golf that cuts out a lot of potential interest from male viewers. Even though most amateur male golfers can't score as well as professional female golfers, they can hit the ball as far or further than most of the field except the top few women, maybe not consistently, hence the score, but they can perform the feat, which reduces the spectacle.

So the above combine to produce an outcome where women don't watch much sport at all, be it male or female, and men prefer to watch men's sport.

The conspiracy that men running sports want to keep women down is a bit grating, it's not a very fair comment, especially if you see how many sports out there for men get far less coverage and reward than women's golf. Try being a weightlifter in the UK, if you break a national record you get the princely sum of £25 and noone knows who you are, you can even make the Olympics and Commonwealth games and need to have a normal job to earn a living. If there was some secret macho conspiracy this would not be happening, the sad fact is weightlifting is just not a popular sport, even less so than womens golf!

 

[chellie]

There are dedicated publications for the ladies game so they are targeting their audience. I have no idea what the readership either in print or online for these magazines but I would suggest they have specific advertisers (clothing, equipment etc aimed specifically for the female golfer). Magazines are a business and have so having dedicated titles makes sense but as Meghan Maclaren points out, what is to stop it crossing over and being of interest to the male golfers.

I bet there are plenty on here that have the ladies US Open golf on no or have already flicked across to see some of the coverage, or even just the leaderboard so sub-consciously there is a latent interest. I can't see how it would do any harm for the male governed mags to pass a nodding glance to the ladies game, especially around the majors, and to tie in advertising (especially if the magazines come under the same publication house).

I think ultimately Meghan will be disappointed and their game will never get the attention she thinks it deserves the same as womens football, cricket etc will never compete in popularity with the mens game. It is just how it is

They are crap imo.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

So personally I enjoy watching all golf, men, women, amateurs, juniors, whatever it may be. However, and this applies to all sports, not just golf, professional sports are entertainment, so the money in the sport is directly correlated to how much exposure a sport gets, and how many eyes it gets on it, not how good players stats are or how hard they work to be at the top of their game.

The first challenge for women's sports is that not many women watch sport, even those that play the same sport. This a general trend, I don't know why it is so, maybe that can be answered and changed, or maybe as a general demographic women are not that interested in watching sport, even if they enjoy participating.

The second challenge is that a lot of people who like to watch sports, enjoy the spectacle seeing those who are genetically gifted do things they cannot, unfortunately for women's golf that cuts out a lot of potential interest from male viewers. Even though most amateur male golfers can't score as well as professional female golfers, they can hit the ball as far or further than most of the field except the top few women, maybe not consistently, hence the score, but they can perform the feat, which reduces the spectacle.

So the above combine to produce an outcome where women don't watch much sport at all, be it male or female, and men prefer to watch men's sport.

The conspiracy that men running sports want to keep women down is a bit grating, it's not a very fair comment, especially if you see how many sports out there for men get far less coverage and reward than women's golf. Try being a weightlifter in the UK, if you break a national record you get the princely sum of £25 and noone knows who you are, you can even make the Olympics and Commonwealth games and need to have a normal job to earn a living. If there was some secret macho conspiracy this would not be happening, the sad fact is weightlifting is just not a popular sport, even less so than womens golf!

I found this a really well written post. I was mulling over a reply before you wrote this but you covered it better than I did in my head. Others may disagree, fair enough.

It isn't the responsibility of men to grow womens golf. We can help, those obstructing need to stop it but ultimately it will need more women to follow, watch and get involved in golf for the money really to flow.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

In part I can see it's chicken and egg, if you can get more people growing up watching women's sport I expect more will stay watching later in life so bigger viewing numbers and more women and girls growing up will participate giving greater strength in depth, but the challenge for any commercial organization whether TV or other media is to produce content that has immediate success rather than remove something from the broadcast that may get higher numbers to support future growth of something with lower numbers.

I think the likes of Sky don't have a responsibility as there are hundreds of sports that don't get coverage so why for example more golf over say netball, hockey, martial arts etc being on Sky more. All the top level competitors will train as hard as golfers i expect so just saying you put in the same time and commitment doesn't mean same reward. Whereas I'd say those specifically in the industry so in this case golf magazines or the likes of the R&A do have a duty to make it as diverse as possible and grow figures.

I think there is also a challenge that when you put rules in place limiting who can compete (i.e. only women) then you restrict the product and potentially become a reduced version of the full option. Maybe less distinct on golf, although "men's" majors you can acknowledge are the best golfers in the world as anyone can play in them. But if you ran the same argument for snooker, should women's snooker get equal media attention (TV and print) and prize money to the men's. Reanne Evans is clearly very skilled at snooker and exceptional to win so many women's world championships but she also has the option (and regularly takes it) to play on the "men's tour" where she can win but normally struggles to qualify hence being ranked outside the top 60 best players. Should there be an onus for both tours to be treated equally when one is better skilled. The 59th best man in the world would not have the same opportunities to win as Reanne already has being able to play on both tours.

I do really enjoy watching a lot of women's sport so I hope it continues to grow and get greater coverage but I'm not sure I expect it ever to be equal levels (same vice versa with netball) given the restrictions put on entry.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

I'd add if you're on the likes of the BBC, skysports etc webpage make an effort to click on the women's sport links even if not full invested. It's a tiny effort on your part but if they see numbers increasing then it will help encourage more articles on the women's game.

 

[hovis]

Personally I'm not interested in women's golf because I find it boring as hell. I like to see a male golfers hook it 350 yards into the woods and pull off an amazing shot out the tree into the middle of the green. Womens golf is just plain and predicable imo.
However, I prefer to watch women's tennis. I hate the male "serve a bullet and win the point". Womens tennis is much more entertaining imo.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

They are crap imo.

Have to agree with you in my limited experience of them. Do they have an online version and is that any better. Have you ever considered telling them you think their content is poor. A good editor (like MikeH) will listen and should take comments on board and look to change things.

 

[slowhand]

I've never seen a magazine dedicated to golf on any newstand. Can youy post their names?

As for Dibby's point about other niche sports, I have to agree somewhat. My daughter is very into vollyeball, but trying to find any coverage of that on TV or in the mainstream media. There's not even anything on YouTube

Personally, what hovis finds entertaining (bomb & gouge by the men) and boring (plotting your way round the course), I find boring and entertaining. Really enjoing the Women's US Open at the moment

 

[hovis]

I've never seen a magazine dedicated to golf on any newstand. Can youy post their names?

As for Dibby's point about other niche sports, I have to agree somewhat. My daughter is very into vollyeball, but trying to find any coverage of that on TV or in the mainstream media. There's not even anything on YouTube

Personally, what hovis finds entertaining (bomb & gouge by the men) and boring (plotting your way round the course), I find boring and entertaining. Really enjoing the Women's US Open at the moment

It's no so much bomb and gouge that I find entertaining. Men seem to be more wayward, take on more risk and find themselves in precarious situations because of the distance they hit the ball. I love watching Phil for example. On the LPGA tour the women hit it sooooooo straight all the time and then a straight shot into the green. You don't see many women spinning the ball back 30 feet off the green into a lake!!!!!

 

[sunshine]

So personally I enjoy watching all golf, men, women, amateurs, juniors, whatever it may be. However, and this applies to all sports, not just golf, professional sports are entertainment, so the money in the sport is directly correlated to how much exposure a sport gets, and how many eyes it gets on it, not how good players stats are or how hard they work to be at the top of their game.

The first challenge for women's sports is that not many women watch sport, even those that play the same sport. This a general trend, I don't know why it is so, maybe that can be answered and changed, or maybe as a general demographic women are not that interested in watching sport, even if they enjoy participating.

The second challenge is that a lot of people who like to watch sports, enjoy the spectacle seeing those who are genetically gifted do things they cannot, unfortunately for women's golf that cuts out a lot of potential interest from male viewers. Even though most amateur male golfers can't score as well as professional female golfers, they can hit the ball as far or further than most of the field except the top few women, maybe not consistently, hence the score, but they can perform the feat, which reduces the spectacle.

So the above combine to produce an outcome where women don't watch much sport at all, be it male or female, and men prefer to watch men's sport.

The conspiracy that men running sports want to keep women down is a bit grating, it's not a very fair comment, especially if you see how many sports out there for men get far less coverage and reward than women's golf. Try being a weightlifter in the UK, if you break a national record you get the princely sum of £25 and noone knows who you are, you can even make the Olympics and Commonwealth games and need to have a normal job to earn a living. If there was some secret macho conspiracy this would not be happening, the sad fact is weightlifting is just not a popular sport, even less so than womens golf!

This post articulates the challenges really well.

Tennis is almost the only sport where women have a genuinely high profile and can earn as much (if not more) than men. But that's because the women's game is as entertaining as the men's (even though they are not as good). This gives hope to a lot of other women's sports.

But women's tennis has earned the status on merit. No sport is entitled to money and exposure, although the US women's football team seem to believe they are.

I enjoy watching women's golf but the product is not as entertaining as elite male golf.

 

[chellie]

Have to agree with you in my limited experience of them. Do they have an online version and is that any better. Have you ever considered telling them you think their content is poor. A good editor (like MikeH) will listen and should take comments on board and look to change things.

Have previously been told there would be more content online and it's not happened.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

This post articulates the challenges really well.

Tennis is almost the only sport where women have a genuinely high profile and can earn as much (if not more) than men. But that's because the women's game is as entertaining as the men's (even though they are not as good). This gives hope to a lot of other women's sports.

But women's tennis has earned the status on merit. No sport is entitled to money and exposure, although the US women's football team seem to believe they are.

I enjoy watching women's golf but the product is not as entertaining as elite male golf.

Have female tennis players earned it on merit? Obviously difficult as it's an insane men's era but the viewing figures for the slams, and also the main tours are heavily in favor of the men's game, the ladies obviously play best of 3 in slams and they're not going to be able to compete against the top men due to power/skill sets. Prize money and sponsorship outside slams is still in favor of men but pulled up due to the equal pay position set out for slams but still significantly more commercial opportunities for female tennis players and a high standard of living for the top players.

I agree it's a sport that's seen as an equal standard of entertainment but I'd almost argue it's because of the opportunity presented due to a fair television schedule and prize money despite not necessarily being "earnt" (obviously ladies train very hard, highly skillful and can put on exciting matches). That's allowed it to increase fans and strength in depth of the game with girls seeing it as a sport to pursue, so is it more an example to support Megan's statement above that you invest now in women's golf to have similar TV exposure (and also mixed competitions) and you'd see it being viewed as equally entertaining just like tennis is?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Have to say it’s very hard to watch the current Woman’s US Open - there seems to be zero excitement, feels really slow and laboured and the course just seem to grab the attention as well . Maybe it’s the commentary but it’s enough to make you want to turn off . If golfers turn off then can anyone see non golfers watching it.

I know some mens comps aren’t great to watch as well but this seems like what a lot of the Ladies comps are like beyond the Solhiem Cup.

A lot of people watch sport for excitement etc and currently there is none in this comp

 

[sunshine]

Have female tennis players earned it on merit? Obviously difficult as it's an insane men's era but the viewing figures for the slams, and also the main tours are heavily in favor of the men's game, the ladies obviously play best of 3 in slams and they're not going to be able to compete against the top men due to power/skill sets. Prize money and sponsorship outside slams is still in favor of men but pulled up due to the equal pay position set out for slams but still significantly more commercial opportunities for female tennis players and a high standard of living for the top players.

I agree it's a sport that's seen as an equal standard of entertainment but I'd almost argue it's because of the opportunity presented due to a fair television schedule and prize money despite not necessarily being "earnt" (obviously ladies train very hard, highly skillful and can put on exciting matches). That's allowed it to increase fans and strength in depth of the game with girls seeing it as a sport to pursue, so is it more an example to support Megan's statement above that you invest now in women's golf to have similar TV exposure (and also mixed competitions) and you'd see it being viewed as equally entertaining just like tennis is?

The decision to pay women equal prize money at slams was obviously political, because as you say they are only playing best of 3. However the sponsorship earnings are down to the individual, so the likes of Sharapova and the Williams sisters "earnt" the riches... their talent created the attention.

There is definitely a chicken and egg scenario: if prize money for women's golf trebled then the standard would probably increase due to greater competition.

 

[Dibby]

Have female tennis players earned it on merit? Obviously difficult as it's an insane men's era but the viewing figures for the slams, and also the main tours are heavily in favor of the men's game, the ladies obviously play best of 3 in slams and they're not going to be able to compete against the top men due to power/skill sets. Prize money and sponsorship outside slams is still in favor of men but pulled up due to the equal pay position set out for slams but still significantly more commercial opportunities for female tennis players and a high standard of living for the top players.

I agree it's a sport that's seen as an equal standard of entertainment but I'd almost argue it's because of the opportunity presented due to a fair television schedule and prize money despite not necessarily being "earnt" (obviously ladies train very hard, highly skillful and can put on exciting matches). That's allowed it to increase fans and strength in depth of the game with girls seeing it as a sport to pursue, so is it more an example to support Megan's statement above that you invest now in women's golf to have similar TV exposure (and also mixed competitions) and you'd see it being viewed as equally entertaining just like tennis is?

Is there any data on this?

As far as I am aware in recent times, for the slams the Women's and men's finals have had similar amounts of viewership, with the women's even having higher viewing figures at some points. I agree outside the slams the men's game gets more attention. This may provide some insight, if it's the same players competing, why do women get more viewership in big events?

 

[Dibby]

The decision to pay women equal prize money at slams was obviously political, because as you say they are only playing best of 3. However the sponsorship earnings are down to the individual, so the likes of Sharapova and the Williams sisters "earnt" the riches... their talent created the attention.

There is definitely a chicken and egg scenario: if prize money for women's golf trebled then the standard would probably increase due to greater competition.

Whilst what you say may be true, I think the reasoning is incorrect. The number of sets is talked about a lot, but it is irrelevant. People get distracted when talking about money in sports by trying to relate it to facets of the sport itself, when in in fact it is a form of entertainment, and so it is competing not just against other sports, but against drama, reality TV, music and anything else that fights for airtime and advertising space. If people are entertained and so tune in and buy tickets to watch women playing tennis, it will draw more money irrespective of whether they play more, less or the same number of sets as men, some aspects of the sport may relate to how entertaining we percieve the sport to be, but it's not necessarily a direct correlation.