GM Article - Handicap System Ruining Comps for Low Handicaps

[Arthur Wedge]

You shot 1 over your handicap .. do you think you played well ? Given the conditions and the top 10 scores where does your 35 sit ?
Or are you saying anyone who can’t shoot the single numbers or lower are not worthy of prizes ? If so you should just play scratch competitions and put your game to the test

You said scoring 35 points is “mediocre” golf and shouldn’t be awarded any prize or someone shouting over par is rewarding “poor golf”

You were the only one who talked about people being worthy of winning prizes

You have someone who shoots 14 more shots being more worthy it seems ?


If someone wins a board comp with no divisions on a score of 34 points do you not allow him to win the prize because he didn’t break his current handicap ?

If someone has a lowest gross of 3 over par then surely it’s worthy of a prize for being the best score on the day ?

If someone wins club champs or a scratch comp by shooting over par do they get the prize ?

 

[harpo_72]

You said scoring 35 points is “mediocre” golf and shouldn’t be awarded any prize or someone shouting over par is rewarding “poor golf”

You were the only one who talked about people being worthy of winning prizes

You have someone who shoots 14 more shots being more worthy it seems ?


If someone wins a board comp with no divisions on a score of 34 points do you not allow him to win the prize because he didn’t break his current handicap ?

If someone has a lowest gross of 3 over par then surely it’s worthy of a prize for being the best score on the day ?

If someone wins club champs or a scratch comp by shooting over par do they get the prize ?

You have missed the point, the club is paying prizes out for lowest gross that have been handed in by low hcp players but are not competitive with the general scoring of the competition… the issue is the low hcpers have whinged so much like the person in the article and bullied the clubs into giving prizes out.
If you think this is the way forward then you’re also marginalising those players who don’t have the free time that you do to work on their game but still want to enjoy competitive golf.
The hcp system is designed/ intended for everyone to compete on a level playing field .. so if your losing out then the system is saying you did not play well enough.

 

[Backache]

You have missed the point, the club is paying prizes out for lowest gross that have been handed in by low hcp players but are not competitive with the general scoring of the competition… the issue is the low hcpers have whinged so much like the person in the article and bullied the clubs into giving prizes out.
If you think this is the way forward then you’re also marginalising those players who don’t have the free time that you do to work on their game but still want to enjoy competitive golf.
The hcp system is designed/ intended for everyone to compete on a level playing field .. so if your losing out then the system is saying you did not play well enough.

If players are too lazy to work on their game perhaps they should not expect to get a prize.

 

[wjemather]

If players are too lazy to work on their game perhaps they should not expect to get a prize.

Everyone has a ceiling, regardless of how much they work on their game. For many that ceiling is a double figure handicap (and then some).

 

[Arthur Wedge]

You have missed the point, the club is paying prizes out for lowest gross that have been handed in by low hcp players but are not competitive with the general scoring of the competition… the issue is the low hcpers have whinged so much like the person in the article and bullied the clubs into giving prizes out.
If you think this is the way forward then you’re also marginalising those players who don’t have the free time that you do to work on their game but still want to enjoy competitive golf.
The hcp system is designed/ intended for everyone to compete on a level playing field .. so if your losing out then the system is saying you did not play well enough.

Play well enough ? Against what though - a handicap system which doesnt have a level playing field

Over the last 18 months most of our Stablefords have been won by someone getting over 40 points or someone having a net of under 67

The level of results needed for a low HC to even challenge would need them to go under par most of the time - that’s a rarity compared to the mid/high HC getting 40 points

There is no level playing field and it’s why many clubs have now brought in divisions

That has allowed more people to be competitive against their peers

So most clubs now have 3 divisions plus a lowest gross prize - does that not provide a fairer way to allow more people to be competitive

It seems that for some it’s better to ensure the players that have got their HC low to not be in with a chance of getting a prize

If someone shoots the lowest gross then that’s the best score of the day - why shouldn’t they be rewarded for that ?

Those high/mid handicappers have got a better chance of winning Handicap events that anyone that’s got his handicap low

 

[Backache]

You have missed the point, the club is paying prizes out for lowest gross that have been handed in by low hcp players but are not competitive with the general scoring of the competition… the issue is the low hcpers have whinged so much like the person in the article and bullied the clubs into giving prizes out.
If you think this is the way forward then you’re also marginalising those players who don’t have the free time that you do to work on their game but still want to enjoy competitive golf.
The hcp system is designed/ intended for everyone to compete on a level playing field .. so if your losing out then the system is saying you did not play well enough.

The problem is without fairly tight bands you cannot handicap stroke play really in a way that is fair in the sense of everyone having an approximately equal chance which is why we have bands.Just because some geriatric old crumble suddenly gets a good score off a high handicap does not mean that decent players should be penalised by playing in the same band as these useless wrecks.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Play well enough ? Against what though - a handicap system which doesnt have a level playing field

Over the last 18 months most of our Stablefords have been won by someone getting over 40 points or someone having a net of under 67

The level of results needed for a low HC to even challenge would need them to go under par most of the time - that’s a rarity compared to the mid/high HC getting 40 points

There is no level playing field and it’s why many clubs have now brought in divisions

That has allowed more people to be competitive against their peers

So most clubs now have 3 divisions plus a lowest gross prize - does that not provide a fairer way to allow more people to be competitive

It seems that for some it’s better to ensure the players that have got their HC low to not be in with a chance of getting a prize

If someone shoots the lowest gross then that’s the best score of the day - why shouldn’t they be rewarded for that ?

Those high/mid handicappers have got a better chance of winning Handicap events that anyone that’s got his handicap low

No, the system is to make hackers higher handicaps feel better about themselves. To give them the illusion they are competing on a level playing field.*

It’s why we have to play stablefords! So they can ignore the double digit holes.

It does amuse me that people give their net score of 69 when you ask them what they shot, rather than 106 .






















*I jest (well, a bit) for the easily offended, I’m a hacker too.

 

[harpo_72]

Play well enough ? Against what though - a handicap system which doesnt have a level playing field

Over the last 18 months most of our Stablefords have been won by someone getting over 40 points or someone having a net of under 67

The level of results needed for a low HC to even challenge would need them to go under par most of the time - that’s a rarity compared to the mid/high HC getting 40 points

There is no level playing field and it’s why many clubs have now brought in divisions

That has allowed more people to be competitive against their peers

So most clubs now have 3 divisions plus a lowest gross prize - does that not provide a fairer way to allow more people to be competitive

It seems that for some it’s better to ensure the players that have got their HC low to not be in with a chance of getting a prize

If someone shoots the lowest gross then that’s the best score of the day - why shouldn’t they be rewarded for that ?

Those high/mid handicappers have got a better chance of winning Handicap events that anyone that’s got his handicap low

You have peaked then and your in a place where your treading water .. so your complaining about it rather than trying to compete in a scratch competition..

 

[Arthur Wedge]

You have peaked then and your in a place where your treading water .. so your complaining about it rather than trying to compete in a scratch competition..

We have 2 scratch competitions and I enter both each year

So why can’t the club add a prize to the person who shot the best score that day

Is that not what golf is supposed to be - scoring as low as possible

Or should clubs just have prizes for those that don’t score the best golf

 

[evemccc]

We have 2 scratch competitions and I enter both each year

So why can’t the club add a prize to the person who shot the best score that day

Is that not what golf is supposed to be - scoring as low as possible

Or should clubs just have prizes for those that don’t score the best golf

I’m midtable at my club and likely, at most clubs….But I definitely think more prizes / more comps should do this….Aside from getting as much enjoyment from golf as I can, being as low a handicap as I can (I.E. as good as possible) is certainly a big aim in my golf

I would suspect the same for most. But not all..

 

[harpo_72]

We have 2 scratch competitions and I enter both each year

So why can’t the club add a prize to the person who shot the best score that day

Is that not what golf is supposed to be - scoring as low as possible

Or should clubs just have prizes for those that don’t score the best golf

I have no problem with them adding a prize but the field should have a choice to support it or not like the 2s ..

 

[Springveldt]

You have missed the point, the club is paying prizes out for lowest gross that have been handed in by low hcp players but are not competitive with the general scoring of the competition… the issue is the low hcpers have whinged so much like the person in the article and bullied the clubs into giving prizes out.
If you think this is the way forward then you’re also marginalising those players who don’t have the free time that you do to work on their game but still want to enjoy competitive golf.
The hcp system is designed/ intended for everyone to compete on a level playing field .. so if your losing out then the system is saying you did not play well enough.

Or maybe he isn't manipulating his handicap enough to compete? Maybe he should chuck in a few terrible rounds, get a handicap raise of 5 shots then suddenly become an improving golfer again?

The handicap system isn't that fair and it never will be. The odds of those on lower handicaps of beating their handicap by 4+ shots is a lot, lot less than those with higher handicaps.

https://www.popeofslope.com/sandbagging/odds.html

The odds of someone in the 0-5 range of shooting 6 under their handicap (42 points) is 790-1 while someone in the 22-30 range is six times more likely to it at 130-1. Since there are also usually more players in the higher handicap range in a club competition it puts the lower guys at an even bigger disadvantage.

I'm not sure why you think giving out a prize to best gross is a bad idea, shouldn't the best golfer on the day be rewarded? I'll very likely never win a best gross but I'm in favour of it, we should be recognising good golf, the aim of the game is to shoot as low as possible.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I have no problem with them adding a prize but the field should have a choice to support it or not like the 2s ..

Why ? Everyone has a chance to win the best gross in the same way everyone has a chance to win the Net prize surely ?

You have talked about mediocre golf etc but it seems you want to see more rewards for those that don’t actually play the best golf that day

 

[bobmac]

Why not run 2 comps at the same time, one for net and one for gross.
Give players the option

 

[harpo_72]

Why ? Everyone has a chance to win the best gross in the same way everyone has a chance to win the Net prize surely ?

You have talked about mediocre golf etc but it seems you want to see more rewards for those that don’t actually play the best golf that day

Well no they don’t do they that’s a fact of life ..to answer your first point.

Secondly I have highlighted just showing up a shooting your handicap isn’t really great golf you have not actually stretched yourself have you ? You have not actually done anything unexpected or shown improvement..

 

[Backache]

Well no they don’t do they that’s a fact of life ..to answer your first point.

Secondly I have highlighted just showing up a shooting your handicap isn’t really great golf you have not actually stretched yourself have you ? You have not actually done anything unexpected or shown improvement..

Well you might have done, who knows what the conditions were like when you played, what kind of unlucky bounces you had.
You've still shot the best round of the day.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Well no they don’t do they that’s a fact of life ..to answer your first point.

Secondly I have highlighted just showing up a shooting your handicap isn’t really great golf you have not actually stretched yourself have you ? You have not actually done anything unexpected or shown improvement..

You keep talking about “great golf” and also mentioning handicap

Do you know how hard it is to shoot level par around a golf course ? It’s great golf , and it’s significantly better golf than someone shooting 80 but getting 40 stableford points or a net 64

Someone getting a net 68 etc is good golf “RELATIVE” to their handicap

Someone getting level gross is great golf

A high to mid HC has a better chance of winning handicap events - it’s why divisions and gross prizes are included in many events

 

[clubchamp98]

Why not run 2 comps at the same time, one for net and one for gross.
Give players the option

That sounds good in theory .
But a 7 hcap like me has no chance against a couple of scratch guys .
But equally I feel I have no chance against the middle handicappers atm.
Shot 69 net three under two weeks ago and came 10th

Lowest gross is for the best golfer on the day and should be applauded imo. With a small prize.
But if I read it right lowest gross got a bigger prize than the winner that shouldn’t happen imo!
The conditions play a big part in the scoring.

 

[harpo_72]

You keep talking about “great golf” and also mentioning handicap

Do you know how hard it is to shoot level par around a golf course ? It’s great golf , and it’s significantly better golf than someone shooting 80 but getting 40 stableford points or a net 64

Someone getting a net 68 etc is good golf “RELATIVE” to their handicap

Someone getting level gross is great golf

A high to mid HC has a better chance of winning handicap events - it’s why divisions and gross prizes are included in many events

Strangely I do and I have had a few course records … I have beaten + hcp players off scratch. I always play the course not the hcp allocation.
I remember playing some corporate event in the Indianapolis with American customers who were trying to win paddock passes. The guy with us was totally ignored by by Suzuki and my tec director, which was poor form given the amount they paid to participate. So I went on a birdie bash on the back 9 and that got him and his son paddock passes… so yeah I know good golf but I also know about life , injuries and time so reading your comments and views are of no value they are just unappreciative of Joe average having a nice or good day.

 

[steadyon]

It’s like we’ve gone a bit mad!

The only only truly fair comp is if everyone plays off scratch. That’s what the pro’s do, some are better than others, some are on form, some are off. Nonetheless they play off scratch.

But, we’re not pro’s, we’re amateur golfers playing for a hobby (it’s about fun) so we have this handicap system, there will never be a 100% fair one, there always be a few who keep there handicap high so they can win the odd £20. Who cares, not me, I’m playing for fun, fresh air and a bit of exercise. I don’t anticipate ever winning anything. But, thats just me.

I play with the aim of getting my handicap as low as I can, it’ll never be as low as some people no matter how hard I try. If I played with the aim of winning the odd comp and £20 here and there I guess I’d get my handicap as high as possible, which can be done fairly and within the rules (even if I think it’s a bit crazy and unsporting).

I guess to a certain degree you’ve got to make your choice but it seems you can’t have it both ways.