GM Article - Handicap System Ruining Comps for Low Handicaps

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Our May Sunday Medal a couple of days ago. 84 played and 9 of top 20 were SF guys. Not a bad showing by the SF players in the club. Only four played to HC or better, and it was won with a nett 5 under by a guy off ten. Conditions were tricky…but isn’t that the nature of the game…when the going gets tough the better players cope better and do better.

That said…the guy off 10 who won should probably really be lower but despite whatever he isn’t. Though after Sunday he’s now off 9.

 

[Slab]

I’m all for there being a lowest gross prize as a divisional prize in dam near every AM comp.
Pretty much any comp is enhanced by having good players in the field and for the benefit of both players, those off 2 or 3 shouldn’t really be in the same single pot only, as a 46 handicapper in a full field event.
There may need to be an overall winner but that shouldn’t preclude divisions

Just for mischief though… (& cos the forums’ a big fan of not having/eating cake)

If a nett comp needs a prize for lowest gross (& as above, they def should) it stands to reason that any scratch comp for lowest gross winner also has a prize for lowest nett!

 

[bobmac]

That sounds good in theory .

But if I read it right lowest gross got a bigger prize than the winner that shouldn’t happen imo!
The conditions play a big part in the scoring.

If there was a choice, then the nett prizes would be as normal but the lower h/cps would just play for the scratch entrance fee.
So if 5 people enter the scratch and pay £3 each, the prize is £15.
If 10 people enter £30 etc
That would at least solve the problem in the OP

But a 7 hcap like me has no chance against a couple of scratch guys.
But equally I feel I have no chance against the middle handicappers atm.

If you feel you can't beat the scratch guys, enter the nett or don't play. At least you have the choice.

Shot 69 net three under two weeks ago and came 10th Lowest gross is for the best golfer on the day and should be applauded imo. With a small prize.

Totally agree.
I played in a medal many years ago and shot 2 under gross.
Won nothing
Never played a medal again.
And that was under the old system, 30 odd years ago.

The other bonus is that the lower h/caps wouldn't feel they are throwing their money at the nett prize pot every week which they have no chance of winning and the mid-high hcps wouldn't be paying into the scratch pot.
Another club I played in Germany almost got it right where you paid to enter the comp (DM5) but if you wanted to enter the scratch comp, you had to pay again, another DM5.

The whole point of the OP is that some golfers feel that ''golf rewards mediocrity''
If there was a scratch section, low h/cps would also be rewarded

 

[RichA]

In a lifetime of playing competitive amateur sports I had never heard an amateur sportsperson complain about prizes until I took up golf.
I can't help but think the mindset of golfers is the problem.
If you're entering any handicap competition you are essentially placing a sporting bet on yourself - that's all. It's not about identifying the best golfer. The best golfer isn't entering your local club's monthly Stableford.

 

[bobmac]

The best golfer isn't entering your local club's monthly Stableford.

Why not?

 

[SteveW86]

Why not?

Because the best golfer is playing on tour

 

[bobmac]

Because the best golfer is playing on tour

I thought the thread was about amateur golfers?

 

[SteveW86]

I thought the thread was about amateur golfers?

The thread is generally yes, but the comment was about “the best golfer”. Even at amateur level, how many of the elite amateurs are playing club stablefords regularly…..my guess would be very few.

All club level golf is really doing is seeing who plays best relative to their handicap on the day

 

[bobmac]

The thread is generally yes, but the comment was about “the best golfer”. Even at amateur level, how many of the elite amateurs are playing club stablefords regularly…..my guess would be very few.

All club level golf is really doing is seeing who plays best relative to their handicap on the day

So are you against my idea of splitting all comps into scratch or h/cap sections giving golfers the choice?

 

[Orikoru]

In a lifetime of playing competitive amateur sports I had never heard an amateur sportsperson complain about prizes until I took up golf.
I can't help but think the mindset of golfers is the problem.
If you're entering any handicap competition you are essentially placing a sporting bet on yourself - that's all. It's not about identifying the best golfer. The best golfer isn't entering your local club's monthly Stableford.

Yeah - people need to chill a bit and not take the 'competitive' part of 'competitive golf' too seriously. Lots of people enter plenty of comps and never win, for all sorts of reasons! It's not a big deal.

 

[wjemather]

I thought the thread was about amateur golfers?

Most of the best amateurs play almost nothing but the big scratch events; they aren't entering club comps.

So are you against my idea of splitting all comps into scratch or h/cap sections giving golfers the choice?

You wouldn't get any entries for the scratch event. So few would be interested that its prize fund wouldn't be enough to maintain interest.

A quick glance at the tee sheet to see if any of the really low guys are down to play and it's back to entering the handicap comp (and later whining about higher handicappers winning with a far from exceptional 40 points, despite having only scored a mediocre 35 points).

 

[SteveW86]

So are you against my idea of splitting all comps into scratch or h/cap sections giving golfers the choice?

Honestly, theres very few things I care about less. I play off 10, I'd need an incredible day to win the scratch comp and a very good day to stand a chance in the handicap comp. I play club level golf mainly to just enjoy myself, socialise and get outside.

If I had to vote I'd do away with handicaps, having competed at elite level sport when I was younger it frustrates me that the system tries to create an even playing field for different abilities when its pretty much impossible. Theres no incentive to get better, other than to have the lower handicap. So for me, I dont really care how I do in the comps, I want to play the best I can, get my handicap as low as possible, but make sure I enjoy myself at the same time.

 

[bobmac]

Most of the best amateurs play almost nothing but the big scratch events; they aren't entering club comps.

But the article in the OP is talking about low handicap golfers in their club, so Cat I basically

You wouldn't get any entries for the scratch event. So few would be interested that its prize fund wouldn't be enough to maintain interest.

Are you saying that low h/caps would rather enter the net comp with a larger prize fund that they have little or no chance of winning or compete against other good players in a scratch section that they can win?

 

[bobmac]

Honestly, theres very few things I care about less. I play off 10, I'd need an incredible day to win the scratch comp and a very good day to stand a chance in the handicap comp. I play club level golf mainly to just enjoy myself, socialise and get outside.

If I had to vote I'd do away with handicaps, having competed at elite level sport when I was younger it frustrates me that the system tries to create an even playing field for different abilities when its pretty much impossible. Theres no incentive to get better, other than to have the lower handicap. So for me, I dont really care how I do in the comps, I want to play the best I can, get my handicap as low as possible, but make sure I enjoy myself at the same time.

I was just trying to suggest a solution that was asked for in the OP that might encourage the lower h/caps back into club comps

 

[GB72]

Honestly, theres very few things I care about less. I play off 10, I'd need an incredible day to win the scratch comp and a very good day to stand a chance in the handicap comp. I play club level golf mainly to just enjoy myself, socialise and get outside.

If I had to vote I'd do away with handicaps, having competed at elite level sport when I was younger it frustrates me that the system tries to create an even playing field for different abilities when its pretty much impossible. Theres no incentive to get better, other than to have the lower handicap. So for me, I dont really care how I do in the comps, I want to play the best I can, get my handicap as low as possible, but make sure I enjoy myself at the same time.

Thing is though, elite level sport works because the elite level are playing against other elite players or teams. That is where, I guess, the idea of divisions in comps pays off as like should be playing like. At the moment you have the equivalent of higher end non league teams playing the Dog and Duck Sunday kick around squad but they are given a 10 goal head start to try and even it.

The only way to even things out is to play in divisions, as with elite and other levels of sport.

I still think that a lot of dissenting voices would, however, go away if you simply removed prize money. This is where we get all of the responses about doing it for the honour of winning a comp etc and I get that for honours board events etc but really, the honour of winning the monthly knock about comp. The cynic in me sees a degree of not caring about handicaps etc but some caring that the £40 prize or whatever is going on someone else's account. If you get the lowest gross, that does not change, well done, excellent and something to be proud of but do you need to be paid to enjoy that achievement.

 

[wjemather]

Are you saying that low h/caps would rather enter the net comp with a larger prize fund that they have little or no chance of winning or compete against other good players in a scratch section that they can win?

Yes, they would rather enter the handicap comp (which they have the same lottery-like chance of winning as everyone else, especially with divisions) because almost no-one is interested in playing in a comp with almost no other entrants for the chance of turning £5 cash into £10 shop credit.

 

[RichA]

Yeah - people need to chill a bit and not take the 'competitive' part of 'competitive golf' too seriously. Lots of people enter plenty of comps and never win, for all sorts of reasons! It's not a big deal.

Yep. First prize in any local handicap comp should be a sleeve of Srixon Distance. Board comp winners get AD333. Suddenly it's just about recreation and short-term, local bragging rights.
Our group have a small engraved plastic trophy - the winner is a "Champion Until Next Time".

 

[SteveW86]

Thing is though, elite level sport works because the elite level are playing against other elite players or teams. That is where, I guess, the idea of divisions in comps pays off as like should be playing like. At the moment you have the equivalent of higher end non league teams playing the Dog and Duck Sunday kick around squad but they are given a 10 goal head start to try and even it.

The only way to even things out is to play in divisions, as with elite and other levels of sport.

I still think that a lot of dissenting voices would, however, go away if you simply removed prize money. This is where we get all of the responses about doing it for the honour of winning a comp etc and I get that for honours board events etc but really, the honour of winning the monthly knock about comp. The cynic in me sees a degree of not caring about handicaps etc but some caring that the £40 prize or whatever is going on someone else's account. If you get the lowest gross, that does not change, well done, excellent and something to be proud of but do you need to be paid to enjoy that achievement.

Yes, you have a huge mixed ability range trying to play together and its a compromise. People should just go out and enjoy themselves.

I was having to travel about 800 miles a week to compete at elite level when I was younger, I imagine for the true elite amateurs that are playing in the big events, they will be doing their fair share of travelling too.

 

[bobmac]

Yes, they would rather enter the handicap comp (which they have the same lottery-like chance of winning as everyone else, especially with divisions) because almost no-one is interested in playing in a comp with almost no other entrants for the chance of turning £5 cash into £10 shop credit.

I can't speak for every club in the land but again, the OP was asking for solutions.
If your club has tried my ''solution'' and no-one entered the scratch comp, I'd be interested to hear of your experience

 

[Orikoru]

Yep. First prize in any local handicap comp should be a sleeve of Srixon Distance. Board comp winners get AD333. Suddenly it's just about recreation and short-term, local bragging rights.
Our group have a small engraved plastic trophy - the winner is a "Champion Until Next Time".

This is another that made me chuckle when people were suggesting the gross winner should get a sleeve of balls. Based on my memory of what balls are given as prizes it's usually Srixon Soft Feel, Titleist TrueFeel etc - I don't think many low cappers are using them to be fair.