GM Article - Handicap System Ruining Comps for Low Handicaps

[wjemather]

I can't speak for every club in the land but again, the OP was asking for solutions.
If your club has tried my ''solution'' and no-one entered the scratch comp, I'd be interested to hear of your experience

Probably better to simply enact handicap divisions (maybe also have a gross prize), educate players about how handicap comps work (i.e. like a lottery) and debunk a few myths, rather than bending over backwards trying to accommodate a very small number of low handicappers, a vocal minority of whom have an unwarranted sense of entitlement?

 

[GB72]

Yes, you have a huge mixed ability range trying to play together and its a compromise. People should just go out and enjoy themselves.

I was having to travel about 800 miles a week to compete at elite level when I was younger, I imagine for the true elite amateurs that are playing in the big events, they will be doing their fair share of travelling too.

I totally agree, it is all about the fun.

What I am seeing a bit of on here though is that it is not about the winning of the a competition, it is about getting paid. It is about getting those pro shop credits and nothing to do with the fun or the enjoyment of competing.

As I mentioned before, I think a number of issues in golf would disappear if you removed all prizes from competition at this level.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

So are you against my idea of splitting all comps into scratch or h/cap sections giving golfers the choice?

You wouldn’t get very many entries at all

It’s why most clubs now have their club champs as scratch and net together to get more entries


The easy solution is

Have handicap divisions

Either 2 or 3 depending on the entries

And then have a best gross prize as well

That should provide opportunities for all that enter a competition

When we have board comps and its a net comp then there is also a gross prize as well ( not at the same level )

The conversation came about because someone was complaining that someone got a prize for shooting the best gross score that day but it was only a “mediocre” 35 points equivalent

 

[bobmac]

If your club has tried my ''solution'' and no-one entered the scratch comp, I'd be interested to hear of your experience

Probably better to simply enact handicap divisions (maybe also have a gross prize), educate players about how handicap comps work (i.e. like a lottery) and debunk a few myths, rather than bending over backwards trying to accommodate a very small number of low handicappers, a vocal minority of whom have an unwarranted sense of entitlement?

Your deflection suggests to me your club hasn't tried my solution.

You wouldn’t get very many entries at all

It’s why most clubs now have their club champs as scratch and net together to get more entries

That's what I am suggesting, a scratch and net comp together, giving the players the choice which section to enter and not just once a year.

 

[harpo_72]

I can't speak for every club in the land but again, the OP was asking for solutions.
If your club has tried my ''solution'' and no-one entered the scratch comp, I'd be interested to hear of your experience

I think it’s a good solution, gives everyone a choice and then we can choose to enter either or both.

 

[bobmac]

I think it’s a good solution, gives everyone a choice and then we can choose to enter either or both.

Thank you.

Pro: Morning Bill, are you here to enter the comp?
Bill: Yes please
Pro: Scratch or net?
Bill: Scratch please
Pro: 2's?
Bill: yes please
Pro: That's £3 for the comp and £1 for the 2s

It's not rocket science.

 

[PaulMdj]

Thank you.

Pro: Morning Bill, are you here to enter the comp?
Bill: Yes please
Pro: Scratch or net?
Bill: Scratch please
Pro: 2's?
Bill: yes please
Pro: That's £3 for the comp and £1 for the 2s

It's not rocket science.

It’s a simple solution that maybe pointless:

Pro: Morning Bill, are you here to enter the comp?
Bill: Yes please
Pro: Scratch or net?
Bill: Net please, no point entering the scratch, only had 4 entries last week and I won £10.00 and got £2.00 for my 2, Scratch event had over 100 entries and winner got £70.00, 2’s were worth £12.00 might as well risk the net.
Pro: 2’s?
Bill: Yes please
Pro: That's £3 for the comp and £1 for the 2s.


And yes we did try this at our place about 5 years back when the Captain was off +2 and he didn’t like the way we ran Comps. Ran for a month before we changed it to 1 comp and introduced best gross prize.

 

[clubchamp98]

Your deflection suggests to me your club hasn't tried my solution.


That's what I am suggesting, a scratch and net comp together, giving the players the choice which section to enter and not just once a year.

Our very low men are having their own sweep after the main comp and are basically taking out the middle man ( the club) who take a percentage for trophy engraving etc out of the entrance fees!

They enter the majors only now.

So in a way they have voted with their feet and unofficially put your plan into action.

£5 a man winner takes all at least they all have a chance to win.
But not great it’s come to this !

 

[GB72]

OK so it not about being able to win, being top of the board against your peers, it is about how much cash you get. That somewhat changes the argument so how about:

Pro: Morning Bill, are you here to enter the comp?
Bill: Yes please
Pro: Scratch or net?
Bill: Net please, no point entering the scratch, only had 4 entries last week and I won £10.00 and got £2.00 for my 2, Scratch event had over 100 entries and winner got £70.00, 2’s were worth £12.00 might as well risk the net.
Pro: We have got rid of prize money for comps. We have cut the entry to £1 as an admin fee but you only play for the bragging rights of winning. The 2's pots are combined over both comps and split.
Bill: Ah, OK. Well I like the challenge of playing against the best so scratch for me and 2's
Pro: That will be £2.00.

So, get rid of prize money, get rid of a problem. I bet there would be less people inclined to manipulate handicaps or cheat as well.

 

[PaulMdj]

OK so it not about being able to win, being top of the board against your peers, it is about how much cash you get. That somewhat changes the argument so how about:

Pro: Morning Bill, are you here to enter the comp?
Bill: Yes please
Pro: Scratch or net?
Bill: Net please, no point entering the scratch, only had 4 entries last week and I won £10.00 and got £2.00 for my 2, Scratch event had over 100 entries and winner got £70.00, 2’s were worth £12.00 might as well risk the net.
Pro: We have got rid of prize money for comps. We have cut the entry to £1 as an admin fee but you only play for the bragging rights of winning. The 2's pots are combined over both comps and split.
Bill: Ah, OK. Well I like the challenge of playing against the best so scratch for me and 2's
Pro: That will be £2.00.

So, get rid of prize money, get rid of a problem. I bet there would be less people inclined to manipulate handicaps or cheat as well.

Why should the 2’s be combined? When it’s 2 seperate comps?

 

[clubchamp98]

OK so it not about being able to win, being top of the board against your peers, it is about how much cash you get. That somewhat changes the argument so how about:

Pro: Morning Bill, are you here to enter the comp?
Bill: Yes please
Pro: Scratch or net?
Bill: Net please, no point entering the scratch, only had 4 entries last week and I won £10.00 and got £2.00 for my 2, Scratch event had over 100 entries and winner got £70.00, 2’s were worth £12.00 might as well risk the net.
Pro: We have got rid of prize money for comps. We have cut the entry to £1 as an admin fee but you only play for the bragging rights of winning. The 2's pots are combined over both comps and split.
Bill: Ah, OK. Well I like the challenge of playing against the best so scratch for me and 2's
Pro: That will be £2.00.

So, get rid of prize money, get rid of a problem. I bet there would be less people inclined to manipulate handicaps or cheat as well.

Spot on .
But marketing in opens seems to say “unless big prizes are on offer people won’t turn up.”
This has filtered to club comps imo.
Ours is £120 for a comp win that’s just to high imo.

Just scrap money prizes/ vouchers , prize tables for am golfers and just go for the golf.

 

[PaulMdj]

Spot on .
But marketing in opens seems to say “unless big prizes are on offer people won’t turn up.”
This has filtered to club comps imo.
Ours is £120 for a comp win that’s just to high imo.

Just scrap money prizes/ vouchers , prize tables for am golfers and just go for the golf.

How many enter your Comps? We get between 100-120 each Sat/Sun, costs £2.00 to enter plus £1.50 for 2’s.

None of it is compulsory, just go and play Golf, don’t worry about Comp or 2’s.

It’s nice that people can go and have a bit fun, play in Comp and if they play well put a bit of cash in their Club account.

Hundreds of Clubs do this every weekend up snd down the Country, I really don’t think it’s an issue.

 

[wjemather]

OK so it not about being able to win, being top of the board against your peers, it is about how much cash you get. That somewhat changes the argument so how about:

Pro: Morning Bill, are you here to enter the comp?
Bill: Yes please
Pro: Scratch or net?
Bill: Net please, no point entering the scratch, only had 4 entries last week and I won £10.00 and got £2.00 for my 2, Scratch event had over 100 entries and winner got £70.00, 2’s were worth £12.00 might as well risk the net.
Pro: We have got rid of prize money for comps. We have cut the entry to £1 as an admin fee but you only play for the bragging rights of winning. The 2's pots are combined over both comps and split.
Bill: Ah, OK. Well I like the challenge of playing against the best so scratch for me and 2's
Pro: That will be £2.00.

So, get rid of prize money, get rid of a problem. I bet there would be less people inclined to manipulate handicaps or cheat as well.

Who is going to pay a £1 admin fee to submit a competition card for handicapping when they can submit a general play one for free?

 

[GB72]

How many enter your Comps? We get between 100-120 each Sat/Sun, costs £2.00 to enter plus £1.50 for 2’s.

None of it is compulsory, just go and play Golf, don’t worry about Comp or 2’s.

It’s nice that people can go and have a bit fun, play in Comp and if they play well put a bit of cash in their Club account.

Hundreds of Clubs do this every weekend up snd down the Country, I really don’t think it’s an issue.

But look at the comments on here. Quite a number have an issue with things as they are at the moment, not because they lose the honour of being top of the heap but because they are not getting paid.

Take away the money, take away the issue.

Who is going to pay a £1 admin fee to submit a competition card for handicapping when they can submit a general play one for free?

It is just a quid to chip in for the cost of administering the comp plus a bit of funds for the club. Make them comps free then, does not really matter. The point is why does there need to be prize money in amateur club events. Money simply causes problems.

 

[wjemather]

How many enter your Comps? We get between 100-120 each Sat/Sun, costs £2.00 to enter plus £1.50 for 2’s.

None of it is compulsory, just go and play Golf, don’t worry about Comp or 2’s.

It’s nice that people can go and have a bit fun, play in Comp and if they play well put a bit of cash in their Club account.

Hundreds of Clubs do this every weekend up snd down the Country, I really don’t think it’s an issue.

Same with us - we have comps every Saturday and Sunday, and almost all are optional roll-up entry.
Unfortunately, there are clubs that block out most of their weekend tee times for meaningless run-of-the-mill competition play and prevent anyone who doesn't enter the comp from playing. There are also many golfers who think these comps mean something instead of seeing them for what they are - just a bit of an extra wager on the side.

 

[PaulMdj]

Same with us - we have comps every Saturday and Sunday, and almost all are optional roll-up entry.
Unfortunately, there are clubs that block out most of their weekend tee times for meaningless run-of-the-mill competition play and prevent anyone who doesn't enter the comp from playing. There are also many golfers who think these comps mean something instead of seeing them for what they are - just a bit of an extra wager on the side.

We allow members to play in Comp tee times, but not enter Comp.

 

[PaulMdj]

But look at the comments on here. Quite a number have an issue with things as they are at the moment, not because they lose the honour of being top of the heap but because they are not getting paid.

Take away the money, take away the issue.


It is just a quid to chip in for the cost of administering the comp plus a bit of funds for the club. Make them comps free then, does not really matter. The point is why does there need to be prize money in amateur club events. Money simply causes problems.

I don’t think it’s quite a number talking about Club Comps, that’s just a few.

I agree about the prize money for Opens though and that’s what most have an issue with, it attracts cheats.

 

[IanM]

Who is going to pay a £1 admin fee to submit a competition card for handicapping when they can submit a general play one for free?

Folk who get balloted out of Opens for having too few comp cards in their 20!

 

[GB72]

I don’t think it’s quite a number talking about Club Comps, that’s just a few.

I agree about the prize money for Opens though and that’s what most have an issue with, it attracts cheats.

Yes, opens are an issue. I have always been of the opinion that the prize should simply be a trophy or similar and a free entry the following year to defend the title.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

It’s simple

Member - enter competition knowing that there are both multiple net prizes within multiple divisions , there is also a single best gross prize - entry £5

Simple