Getting The UK Economy back on track

[Doon frae Troon]

Anyone know if the Government business bail out money excludes companies based in the UK who use tax havens to avoid paying tax.

 

[ferenezejohn]

The backlash against China will be interesting, with the US, Japan, Australia, and others looking at relocating manufacturing outside China.
The EU having just apologised to Italy for abandoning them, now almost 70% of Italians polled want to leave the EU.
It will be a rocky road to recovery, and will hit us all.
Who knows the world might be a better place after this and put the brakes on globalism.
Wishful think probably.

 

[User20204]

The backlash against China will be interesting, with the US, Japan, Australia, and others looking at relocating manufacturing outside China.
The EU having just apologised to Italy for abandoning them, now almost 70% of Italians polled want to leave the EU.
It will be a rocky road to recovery, and will hit us all.
Who knows the world might be a better place after this and put the brakes on globalism.
Wishful think probably.

All these countries will be scurrying back to China a matter of days after this has blown over, business is business and it's all about the Yankee dollar.

 

[ferenezejohn]

All these countries will be scurrying back to China a matter of days after this has blown over, business is business and it's all about the Yankee dollar.

I'm not so sure
A lot will depend on how the US elections go.
Plus it might be a wake up call not to keep all your eggs in one basket.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I'm not so sure
A lot will depend on how the US elections go.
Plus it might be a wake up call not to keep all your eggs in one basket.

Which other countries still have the manufacturing capacity?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Which other countries still have the manufacturing capacity?

Multi nationals can up and move wherever they like. If they want to leave China and set up in Europe, the US etc then they can do at the drop of a hat.

In terms of other products, let's take PPE as that is topical, it really depends on the company or organisation buying it. PPE could be made in the UK going forward but it would need a commitment from the NHS and others to buy from the UK source and it would need them to accept that they will have to pay more. No one is going to invest in machinery, premises, people etc without some hefty commitment.

No manufacturing moved to the Far East because they made it better, it was 100% about price. If countries want greater control about production of certain items then they will have to deal with paying more for it. If they do then capacity going forward will not be an issue.

 

[Fade and Die]

Anyone know if the Government business bail out money excludes companies based in the UK who use tax havens to avoid paying tax.

Richard Branson and the boss of P&O will be be hoping not!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Multi nationals can up and move wherever they like. If they want to leave China and set up in Europe, the US etc then they can do at the drop of a hat.

In terms of other products, let's take PPE as that is topical, it really depends on the company or organisation buying it. PPE could be made in the UK going forward but it would need a commitment from the NHS and others to buy from the UK source and it would need them to accept that they will have to pay more. No one is going to invest in machinery, premises, people etc without some hefty commitment.

No manufacturing moved to the Far East because they made it better, it was 100% about price. If countries want greater control about production of certain items then they will have to deal with paying more for it. If they do then capacity going forward will not be an issue.

But that is rather the point.

Western society is now dependent upon the Chinese and others like Vietnam and the Indian subcontinent for manufacturing since price is the determining factor.

I believe it is naive or romantic to think that once some form of normality returns sufficient of us will be prepared to pay more for those goods produced by cheap labour.

 

[ferenezejohn]

But that is rather the point.

Western society is now dependent upon the Chinese and others like Vietnam and the Indian subcontinent for manufacturing since price is the determining factor.

I believe it is naive or romantic to think that once some form of normality returns sufficient of us will be prepared to pay more for those goods produced by cheap labour.

Japan has already sent aside billions just for that purpose.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Japan has already sent aside billions just for that purpose.

Where there's a will.................

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Japan has already sent aside billions just for that purpose.

Ironic that the country that originally took advantage of cheap labour costs in the 1950's and 60's should now have an issue with the concept.

And as for consumers choosing where their goods are made to satisfy some form of retribution, well it didn't happen with either Japan or Germany.

Quite the reverse.

No, perceived value for money will always be the key factor in consumer behaviour.

 

[SocketRocket]

Ironic that the country that originally took advantage of cheap labour costs in the 1950's and 60's should now have an issue with the concept.

And as for consumers choosing where their goods are made to satisfy some form of retribution, well it didn't happen with either Japan or Germany.

Quite the reverse.

No, perceived value for money will always be the key factor in consumer behaviour.

Producing more at home creates more jobs at home and worthwhile jobs, it creates more tax revinue. The products may cost more but not always. Anyhow, if I currently buy a cheapo pack of socks made in China for £3 and later buy a better quality pack for £6 that were made in the UK its not going to be a major sacrifice in price for most folks but will be great for the person making them having a job and not needing to claim benefits.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Producing more at home creates more jobs at home and worthwhile jobs, it creates more tax revinue. The products may cost more but not always. Anyhow, if I currently buy a cheapo pack of socks made in China for £3 and later buy a better quality pack for £6 that were made in the UK its not going to be a major sacrifice in price for most folks but will be great for the person making them having a job and not needing to claim benefits.

All of which overlooks the fact that we, like some other countries, no longer have the capacity to produce these goods.

Call centres and distribution sites cannot suddenly take on a manufacturing.

The Midlands once was a workshop now it is a warehouse for foreign products.

 

[doublebogey7]

All of which overlooks the fact that we, like some other countries, no longer have the capacity to produce these goods.

Call centres and distribution sites cannot suddenly take on a manufacturing.

The Midlands once was a workshop now it is a warehouse for foreign products.

Plus, weve been relying on labour from the EU for the last decade or so, where are all the workers now going to come from.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

All of which overlooks the fact that we, like some other countries, no longer have the capacity to produce these goods.

Call centres and distribution sites cannot suddenly take on a manufacturing.

The Midlands once was a workshop now it is a warehouse for foreign products.

So surely that means that after B and now the virus it's a wake up call to those in power and the country that we must start to produce things oursleves as we did....which sort of takes me back to my issue with the sale of British Steel to the Chinese.....

 

[OnTour]

Tax tax tax. anything you don't need like a 2.5 litre engine hold on tight. if this has given us anything to work with is we need to use cars less and flights should also be hiked up. prison state !

 

[Deleted member 18588]

So surely that means that after B and now the virus it's a wake up call to those in power and the country that we must start to produce things oursleves as we did....which sort of takes me back to my issue with the sale of British Steel to the Chinese.....

What investor (State or private) would commit the necessary time and resources to building a manufacturing base for this country based upon a romantic notion that consumers will stop choosing products on price?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

What investor (State or private) would commit the necessary time and resources to building a manufacturing base for this country based upon a romantic notion that consumers will stop choosing products on price?

Perhaps when all this is over people might actually realise that the small increase in cost is worth it when compared to being on the international waiting lists for important products.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Perhaps when all this is over people might actually realise that the small increase in cost is worth it when compared to being on the international waiting lists for important products.

You could be right but, personally, I very much doubt it.

For many, many years now the consumer has been shown to have a very short memory.

And, in any event, the difference in cost is unlikely to be small.

Another poster cited socks as an example and suggested a difference of 100% in the price. I can assure him from the experience of clients that the gap would be significantly more.

Imagine that sort of gap on higher value items.

For instance how many drivers do you think Callaway would sell if RRP was £700 rather than £450 and, say, Taylormade continued to source from China and their RRP remained at the lower price.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

You could be right but, personally, I very much doubt it.

For many, many years now the consumer has been shown to have a very short memory.

And, in any event, the difference in cost is unlikely to be small.

Another poster cited socks as an example and suggested a difference of 100% in the price. I can assure him from the experience of clients that the gap would be significantly more.

Imagine that sort of gap on higher value items.

For instance how many drivers do you think Callaway would sell if RRP was £700 rather than £450 and, say, Taylormade continued to source from China and their RRP remained at the lower price.

I agree with your thoughts to a point, but the Government needs to start to talk about "buying British", and make the narrative to build here, employ here and create a steady jobs, products and supply market. If Trump can get elected on his promise to repatriate jobs and making "America great again" they why cant the British Government see that a country that can self sustain itself in times of good AND bad is a message thats needed to be put out there. The country voted to stand on it's own. That and the obvious lack of essential equipment needed in the current crisis shows we need to think differently about where we buy stuff, where it comes from, where it's made and what the real costs are. We cant stand on our own if we rely on imports. We need to reverse that thinking and trend.