Following on from the rules thread..

[Tommo21]

Yes, done it just a few weeks ago with a guy I played with in the feb medal. Good player but cant putt for toffee and he doesn’t see putting as part of the game. Anyway, he was going along just fine and three putted the 17th….well it was 4 really as he casually attempted to putt the little 6 incher he stubbed the ground. I was picking up the flag at the time and he looked to see if I was looking and I just saw it out of the corner of my eye. I’m not suggesting he wasn’t going to call it, I just said that’s a shot when he missed it. He wasn’t that happy, but I was marking his card.

The reason why I done it was simple, that way I’m not put in the position to correct him if he tries to dismiss it. I just got in there first.

 

[viscount17]

To be honest I'd prefer to take a drop where my first is unplayable than play the provisional or be going back to the tee again. as if its the provisional in play & first not found I'd be three off the tee. If I find the first & take a drop I'm there for two with the drop & can usually make some sort of shot. Otherwise again its back to the tee, the provissional ignored & three off the tee.

This bit confuses me! As I read it, the only circumstances where you are not playing three are:
you find your ball and can play it where it is, or
you find your ball in a position where you get a free drop

To have played a provisional, but found your ball in an unplayable and to then have to trek back to play <u>another</u> three off the tee is frankly ridiculous. I know the provi is to guard against not finding it, thereby saving time, but surely it should cover both circumstances - you aren't gaining any advantage.

 

[DCB]

viscount,

Bear in mind that when you declare a ball unplayable you have three options as to how to proceed under penalt of one stroke. Taking the ball back to original point of play is only one of the options. I would think in most cases it would be the one you'd only use in the worst possible case.

 

[viscount17]

DCB, thanks - now gone to the rules, I want to save all this unnecessary walking.

 

[Herbie]

This thread is an example of why I just dont go down the road of explanation of golf rules, even if I know the rule concerned

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I called my old club secretary in our club championship for teeing outside the markers. I had warned him three times and let him move it back which technically made me infringe for offering advice but we'll let that pass for the purpose of this. Got to the 2nd which ran by our putting green (had started on the 7th) and he was at least a foot outside. He played and I called him. It was so funny watching him try and view from either side of the tee markers to somehows prove it was within the tee box confines. He even got a junior from the green to look. I just pointed to the tee in the ground explained that I had given him the benefit and docked him.

Funnily enough it was ages before I got picked for a club match again.

 

[slaznick]

Although I have only been playing three years I take a great interest in the rules (mainly due to sitting in hotel rooms when away and looking at golf stuff on the internet) and when playing with someone who is breaking a rule I tell them that they are doing it, but let them call the penalty on themselves. For example, if they knock a leaf off during a practice swing I'll say something like "You know that's a shot penalty don't you?" I then leave them to add the shot on their score. If they don't add it on I don't think it is down to me to manage them. If they then beat me then so be it.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

My view is that if you are in a competition you have a duty to penalise the player. It is your responsibility to protect the rest of the field from any infringements in te same way as your partner protects the field from your transgressions.

 

[rgs]

Have called a penalty twice in our society over the past 14 years, one with a single figure player and a mid handicap player.

The mid handicapper was called for teeing outside two club lengths from the tee---it cost him the main prize on the day and worse i deprived him of the main prize.

The single figure player was caught pressing down the grass behind his ball with his foot.
Both players took the penalty with good grace.

 

[hackamore]

Yes but if I want to go and look for it I can - probably not in strokeplay but defo would have a quick gander if we're playing match play....then if I find it you have to play and then not talk to me for the rest of the round....

If I'm reading this correctly you're saying that if I declare a ball lost on the tee and play another (not a provisional), you can go and have a look for the first and if you find it, it is the ball in play?

That goes against my understanding completely in that once the ball is declared lost the second ball is in play regardless (even if you find the first in the middle of the fairway after bouncing out off a tree or something similar).

Could somebody clarify this, as it's a situation I find myself in fairly regularly unfortunately!

 

[EchtLoon]

Yes but if I want to go and look for it I can - probably not in strokeplay but defo would have a quick gander if we're playing match play....then if I find it you have to play and then not talk to me for the rest of the round....

If I'm reading this correctly you're saying that if I declare a ball lost on the tee and play another (not a provisional), you can go and have a look for the first and if you find it, it is the ball in play?

That goes against my understanding completely in that once the ball is declared lost the second ball is in play regardless (even if you find the first in the middle of the fairway after bouncing out off a tree or something similar).

Could somebody clarify this, as it's a situation I find myself in fairly regularly unfortunately!

If you play 3 off the tee, and don't decalre it as a provisional before so doing, your ball is in play regardless of whether you find the original or not.

Likewise if you play a provisional, and then state that your first is lost, you are then obliged to play the provisional even if the first is then found - good lie or bad.

 

[Cernunnos]

Hackamore...The magic word is provisional here. If the word is not used then the second ball is the one in play no matter what. (Unless someone knows different).

If on the other hand the word provisional is mentioned then yes someone can go look even if the player has intended on ignoring the first ball.

I once forgot to say my next was a provisional even though at the time could be assumed as such. My first had gone into thick trees & there was a solid clonk of wood. I assumed it was hit into where it might be difficult to find. So played my provisional, but forgot to declare as provisional. Irony is my first had rebounded through the trees & out into the fairway around the slight dogleg out of sight. Now I was reminded when we found my first ball in the fairway, that I hadn't declared the second as a provisional. So was my hard luck. So instead of being in chance of GIR I was needing my next shot to be holed out from over 100 yards & would be lucky to walk off with a bogey that day...

Sometimes the hard way to learn a lesson is the best.

 

[SammmeBee]

The ball is not lost until the provisional becomes the ball in play, which (in simple terms) is not until you've hit it again past the point where you lost the original....

 

[hackamore]

Cernunnos, Echtloon, yes I understand what you're saying as that is always how I play it, but Sammebee is saying something different ie

The ball is not lost until the provisional becomes the ball in play, which (in simple terms) is not until you've hit it again past the point where you lost the original ....

I'd love to get this confirmed one way or the other for future reference, as there could be a scenario where it could be beneficial to know.

 

[SammmeBee]

If it's a provisional then I can look for it, if you say nothing then it's the ball in play and you're 3 off the tee but if I was playing with you I would ask you if it was or wasn't a provisional before you hit it....

I would always play a provisional as you never know when you trees have been kind to you and it's in the middle of the fairway!!

There is no real benefit in not hitting a provisional as 99% of the time you would be further down the fairway in 3 with your original than from another ball off the tee....

 

[clubchamp07]

Homer, I'm a stickler for the tee marker's. I hate seeing anyone go infront of them. I have called more people than I care to remember for doing so. McIlroy was playing our course just before he turned pro in an inter club match and he pulled his opponent. That was on our 5th tee, they didn't speak for the rest of the game. I can't understand why people try to gain a few inches. The last time I pulled someone was also in an interclub match, I didn't say anything to him, I just moved round and looked down the line of the marker's. He knew what I was doing and just glared at me. He moved his ball back and stopped speaking to me. Rules are rules.

 

[hackamore]

Ah ok, I thought you were maintaining that regardless of whether I declare lost or provisional on the tee you could still look for the first and it would become the ball in play.

 

[Cernunnos]

Cernunnos, Echtloon, yes I understand what you're saying as that is always how I play it, but Sammebee is saying something different ie

The ball is not lost until the provisional becomes the ball in play, which (in simple terms) is not until you've hit it again past the point where you lost the original ....

I'd love to get this confirmed one way or the other for future reference, as there could be a scenario where it could be beneficial to know.

Again, the keyword is provisional & must be stated as such. And as Sammebee mentioned, he would always ask a playing partner as the player if the ball he was intending on playing was or wasn't a provisional...

... Something which means I'd play a game of golf with Sammebee any day of the week.

 

[SammmeBee]

Ah ok, I thought you were maintaining that regardless of whether I declare lost or provisional on the tee you could still look for the first and it would become the ball in play.

I was actualy originally saying you cannot declare a ball lost, which you still can't....you just haven't played a provisional - there is a difference albeit very tangible!!!

 

[Twire]

My understanding is that you can't declare a ball lost.

So your ball is in play until your provisional takes over.

i.e. you drive off and stick it in the woods, you call provisional and hit another down the middle. Now if you have a quick gander and can't find it, you can't just declare it lost because if your partner/opponent finds it you have to play it......unless you have played your provisional ball AGAIN past the point of where your first ball was lost. This will deem your provisional ball in play.

Think I'll duck under the desk if thats wrong.