flag leaning ...

[garyinderry]

your playing partner is just off the fringe and about to line up his putt. the flag is leaning heavily towards him making it rather difficult to get the ball into the hole. you ask in or for the flag. he says in.

can you

a) advise that the flag is leaning towards him
b) try and adjust the flag to sit more upright


can he (if he notices)

ask for the flag to be straightened up?

 

[Slab]

for a playing partner I'd have said yes to all (maybe true even for an FC as its not advice) unless something happens when its its the wind that causing the lean and it would need to be held upright

 

[Fyldewhite]

If he requests it he can have the flag centred in the hole but if it falls that way again that's just tough. What you can't do is deliberately lean the flag in some other direction. Alternatively he could have it attended but then it would have to be removed as if he were on the green.

 

[rulefan]

[h=2]17/4[/h][h=4]Adjustment of Flagstick; Player's Rights[/h]Q.A player playing from off the putting green and wishing to leave the flagstick in the hole may find that the flagstick is leaning towards his ball (a disadvantage) or away from his ball (an advantage). What are the player's rights in such a situation?
A.The flagstick may be left as it is or centered in the hole, as contemplated by the Definition of "Flagstick."
The flagstick may not be intentionally adjusted to a more favorable position than centered. To do so would infringe Rule 1-2 (Exerting Influence on Movement of Ball or Altering Physical Conditions).
An opponent or fellow-competitor who centers the flagstick incurs no penalty, but the player may have it restored to its original position. (Revised

 

[garyinderry]

thanks, but can you say, ''this flag is leaning towards you''


it is a statement of fact but would it be giving advice?

 

[Colin L]

It's an observable fact.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So if a flag refuses to sit centre and upright in the hole - perhaps because of the way a hole had been cut on a slope - and as a result is leaning hevily towards you making a good putt (from off the green) much more likely to hit the flag and not go in - then tough. You either have the flag removed or ask a FC or PP to hold the fag upright and centred in the hole - but the flag is always then under the rules deemed to be being attended. There is no room in the rules for righting such a clear unintentional unfairness.

 

[duncan mackie]

So if a flag refuses to sit centre and upright in the hole - perhaps because of the way a hole had been cut on a slope - and as a result is leaning hevily towards you making a good putt (from off the green) much more likely to hit the flag and not go in - then tough. You either have the flag removed or ask a FC or PP to hold the fag upright and centred in the hole - but the flag is always then under the rules deemed to be being attended. There is no room in the rules for righting such a clear unintentional unfairness.

correct

your options remain -

1. say more prayers for less wind, if that's the cause.
2. ask the committee to get the matter resolved there and then.....(possibly limited to large events )
3. shoot the greenstaff if that's the constant cause.

most would use the phrase 'rub of the green' - if it's such a huge disadvantage to you it must be an advantage to others at some point.

 

[SGC001]

I'm not sure who wrote the rules and decided to write it was an advantage to have it leaning away, but if you believe Pelz the flagstick leaning towards you is an advantage as it tends to be more likely to knock the ball downwards so be more likely to go in.

 

[garyinderry]

I'm not sure who wrote the rules and decided to write it was an advantage to have it leaning away, but if you believe Pelz the flagstick leaning towards you is an advantage as it tends to be more likely to knock the ball downwards so be more likely to go in.

maybe if its only slightly leaning towards you. most of the time it makes it harder.

 

[chrisd]

correct

your options remain -

1. say more prayers for less wind, if that's the cause.
2. ask the committee to get the matter resolved there and then.....(possibly limited to large events )
3. shoot the greenstaff if that's the constant cause.

most would use the phrase 'rub of the green' - if it's such a huge disadvantage to you it must be an advantage to others at some point.

Re item 3 Duncan ...... What if you don't get a shot on that hole?

 

[Foxholer]

I'm not sure who wrote the rules and decided to write it was an advantage to have it leaning away, but if you believe Pelz the flagstick leaning towards you is an advantage as it tends to be more likely to knock the ball downwards so be more likely to go in.

That depends on how much the flagstick is leaning. There comes a point where it is leaning forward so much that it is impossible to go in - from that side, but not the other. Pelz determined that a lean either way was an advantage until that point, or where the wind is causing it to wobble.

 

[duncan mackie]

Re item 3 Duncan ...... What if you don't get a shot on that hole?

guess you better shoot the handicap committee first then..... :ears:

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I had a putt where the hole was cut in a slope on the green and the flag was leaning into the slope. My long putt from off the green had to take the borrow across and then down the slope - and it was bang on - but as flag was leaning quite a bit into slope it hit the flagstick and bounced away. A bit pee'd off.

Mind you if we had flagsticks that tapered towards the bottom (as many seem to these days) then I can see how the 'taper' could help the ball drop. As an aside thought - do the rules define the physical form of the flagstick - in the way clubs are defined? Say for example the maximum taper towards the bottom of the stick - is that defined?

 

[duncan mackie]

Mind you if we had flagsticks that tapered towards the bottom (as many seem to these days) then I can see how the 'taper' could help the ball drop. As an aside thought - do the rules define the physical form of the flagstick - in the way clubs are defined? Say for example the maximum taper towards the bottom of the stick - is that defined?

circular in cross section

I have never seen a tapered flag stick - I have seen some with sections of different diameter but never with a taper. 17/3 tells us it can however be tapered.

There's no minimum diameter, and whilst logically there's a practical maximum I'm not sure if it's designated in the rules! A 4" diameter flagstick might be considered a huge advantage for chipping close, but offer extremely little to the sink it brigade!

 

[Foxholer]

I had a putt where the hole was cut in a slope on the green and the flag was leaning into the slope. My long putt from off the green had to take the borrow across and then down the slope - and it was bang on - but as flag was leaning quite a bit into slope it hit the flagstick and bounced away. A bit pee'd off.

Notwithstanding the initial 'Rats' or worse that you might utter, as you had the choice to either leave the flag in or remove it, you only have yourself 'to blame'. I suspect you probably ended up nearer by hitting the flag than if you had simply just missed the hole too.

 

[rulefan]

I had a putt where the hole was cut in a slope on the green and the flag was leaning into the slope. My long putt from off the green had to take the borrow across and then down the slope - and it was bang on - but as flag was leaning quite a bit into slope it hit the flagstick and bounced away. A bit pee'd off.

Mind you if we had flagsticks that tapered towards the bottom (as many seem to these days) then I can see how the 'taper' could help the ball drop. As an aside thought - do the rules define the physical form of the flagstick - in the way clubs are defined? Say for example the maximum taper towards the bottom of the stick - is that defined?

From the USGA

Flagstick Dimensions
The USGA recommends that the flagstick be at least seven feet in height and that
is diameter be not greater than three-quarters of an inch from a point three inches
above the ground to the bottom of the hole

 

[garyinderry]

the way the flag is leaning is something I always take into consideration with every fringe putt. if its leaning away ill leave it in and hit it a bit harder than I normally would. if leaning towards me ill usually take it out unless its lightening quick downhill.


just something to consider along with the usual slope and break and grain. it does make a difference.


it helps as much as it hinders!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

circular in cross section

I have never seen a tapered flag stick - I have seen some with sections of different diameter but never with a taper. 17/3 tells us it can however be tapered.

There's no minimum diameter, and whilst logically there's a practical maximum I'm not sure if it's designated in the rules! A 4" diameter flagstick might be considered a huge advantage for chipping close, but offer extremely little to the sink it brigade!

I played somewhere recently that had flags that 'tapered in' from (I'm guessing) a foot or two above ground level. So wider a foot up than at ground level and then also at bottom of cup.