Dave3498
Q-School Graduate
British PM, French President and the President of the EU.
Spot the one who was properly elected.
Spot the one who was properly elected.
Financial Summit.
- Thread starter Dave3498
- Start date
Parmo
Tour Winner
Strange that, I thought we voted the party not the person?
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
Since when has it been about politics of any kind? Once TV took over, any thought of politics went out the window, it is personality wot counts now, and we didn't vote for Gordon. I didn't vote for Tony either, but he did get in on a majority, so I can't really complain, but if the elected leader steps down, there should have to be an election again.
RGuk
Tour Winner
I voted for the person as it happens. Hence why I shall not vote Labour again.
Parmo
Tour Winner
Not being funny but if you don't know how the voting system works in the UK...
viscount17
Money List Winner
Now that is funny, that you actually believe the voting system does work!
Parmo
Tour Winner
What that you vote for a parties policies and the party not the leader of the party, then when a change is made (which the Tories have done many times for the worse of the country) complain that you voted the person thinking the UK runs a US style election system?
I fail to see how voting for the party doesnt work? Are you seeing something I have missed?
madandra
Money List Winner
Does anyone think this is a localised problem with the blame falling at the feet of Gordon Brown? It is a global problem with the blame spread across continents not just politicians.
As I said previously, since Mrs T let tennents buy their council houses it encouraged greed and profiteering and in one fell swoop removing affordable housing from people in the south east of England and most other parts of the UK. So what did the banks do? They gave inflated mortgages for houses that were not worth the new selling price and in doing so they made the monster they called THE SUB PRIME MARKET.
I bought my house in 2005 for 5 times the price it was sold to its council tennent in 1996. I am happy with it and can afford my mortgage but there are people out there who couldn't get a council house in a nice area nor could they buy one whilst declaring their true income so they tell a little white lie, get a 110% based on exagerated incomes and the lenders didnt give a flying f*** and that owner is in a house thats worth 2/3rds of what they paid.
Her legacy::::
No affordable houseing
No coal mines
No steel
No industry
No manufacturing
No british identity.
Thank you very much Mrs Thatcher !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As I said previously, since Mrs T let tennents buy their council houses it encouraged greed and profiteering and in one fell swoop removing affordable housing from people in the south east of England and most other parts of the UK. So what did the banks do? They gave inflated mortgages for houses that were not worth the new selling price and in doing so they made the monster they called THE SUB PRIME MARKET.
I bought my house in 2005 for 5 times the price it was sold to its council tennent in 1996. I am happy with it and can afford my mortgage but there are people out there who couldn't get a council house in a nice area nor could they buy one whilst declaring their true income so they tell a little white lie, get a 110% based on exagerated incomes and the lenders didnt give a flying f*** and that owner is in a house thats worth 2/3rds of what they paid.
Her legacy::::
No affordable houseing
No coal mines
No steel
No industry
No manufacturing
No british identity.
Thank you very much Mrs Thatcher !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
viscount17
Money List Winner
The definition of democracy contains the words ' of the people, by the people, for the people'. Nowhere in any definition of democracy does it contain the word 'party'. QED we do not have a democracy.
If you are extremely fortunate, you may (and I stress may), as a constituent, find yourself fifth on the list of those given any consideration by the policitian who stood on the basis of being your representative; that is after
self-interest, what the party whip tells him to do (and what part of democracy is that!), a foreign arms dealer with a big cheque book, anyone non-British, . . .
now this bit about voting for a policy, this is the bit about promising a referendum on any Euro constitution, then lieing through their back teeth?
Parmo
Tour Winner
So Vis please give an example of recent what you suggest are democratic societies within the world?
I didn't mention democracy at any stage I stated in the UK we vote for the party and that party can change it's leader when they like and remain in power which is the case.
I didn't mention democracy at any stage I stated in the UK we vote for the party and that party can change it's leader when they like and remain in power which is the case.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
Since no party is made to fulfil any of the policies in their election manifesto (the views of the party), and the government is forced to follow every whim of the prime minister (an individual), whether they believe he is right or wrong, at what point do you consider that you voted for a party? All the party exist for, is to get the chosen leader (selected by them, not you) into number 10, where he, and only he, can run the country as he wishes.
This is how the 'greatest democracy' in the world has just elected a president with no policies at all, apart from 'change'. Fantastic.
The same happens here. Blair got in because of his personality, not his politics. Kinnock didn't get in because he was a ginger welshman, William Hague didn't get in because he was a bald yorkshire man. It had nothing whatsoever to do with their politics.
Most people with a vote are not equipped to make a decision based on policy, (afterall, I have a vote, and I know nothing about how the economy works, and I am educated to a reasonable standard), and so people will always vote on personalities (or vote for the party their dad voted for).
It is time the system realised this, and modernised itself such that you are voting for the man, and not the party, and if the man steps down, you get a new election.
This is how the 'greatest democracy' in the world has just elected a president with no policies at all, apart from 'change'. Fantastic.
The same happens here. Blair got in because of his personality, not his politics. Kinnock didn't get in because he was a ginger welshman, William Hague didn't get in because he was a bald yorkshire man. It had nothing whatsoever to do with their politics.
Most people with a vote are not equipped to make a decision based on policy, (afterall, I have a vote, and I know nothing about how the economy works, and I am educated to a reasonable standard), and so people will always vote on personalities (or vote for the party their dad voted for).
It is time the system realised this, and modernised itself such that you are voting for the man, and not the party, and if the man steps down, you get a new election.
Parmo
Tour Winner
Makes me wonder how Thatchers personality kept her in power for so long.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
No idea, she was bonkers.
Oddly though, I liked the idea of poll tax, it was just poorly executed. It should have been set by central gov, and every one pays the same amount. Council tax is totally unfair if you live in a nice house on your own.
Oddly though, I liked the idea of poll tax, it was just poorly executed. It should have been set by central gov, and every one pays the same amount. Council tax is totally unfair if you live in a nice house on your own.
viscount17
Money List Winner
parmo, I doubt that there are any. ancient greece was said to be, though who can prove that now. we are lead to believe we live in a 'democracy' we don't; don't know what we do have though 'shambles' seems to cover it. democracy, like communism, is a utopian ideal.
despite all, when it came to dealing with Johnny Foreigner, Maggie was FOR Britain and the British, and everyone knew it. (trouble was, when she said the medicine was nasty, she bl**dy well meant it). At the time what opposition there was (Kinnock, Foot) came across as willing to sell out anything and anybody - not much difference there then.
despite all, when it came to dealing with Johnny Foreigner, Maggie was FOR Britain and the British, and everyone knew it. (trouble was, when she said the medicine was nasty, she bl**dy well meant it). At the time what opposition there was (Kinnock, Foot) came across as willing to sell out anything and anybody - not much difference there then.
Parmo
Tour Winner
I think the point is, if you can afford to pay more then you should the same as income tax. I always thought of it like a old couple living in a castle paying the same as a older couple living in a one bed council flat, it makes sense or if you have money and don't want to pay more, move to a smaller house.
tbh Vis UK politics is so dead, no party will make a change for th long term which is needed its all about 4 year plans which do nothing, I am not even sure if voting in the next election is worthwhile as there will be no real change.
viscount17
Money List Winner
used to think proporational representation was an answer to the confrontational politics that we endure; doesn't matter how good an idea if we didn't propose it - out it goes. trouble is proportional seems a recipe for stagnation even if safer; Blairs propensity for shotgun policies caused an enormous amount of collateral damage.
no Westminster needs a thorough overhaul, starting with the idea that employees, which is what they are, vote their own pay; paid by attendance; vote only if you attend the debate and outlaw the whip system; oh there are lots more . . .
no Westminster needs a thorough overhaul, starting with the idea that employees, which is what they are, vote their own pay; paid by attendance; vote only if you attend the debate and outlaw the whip system; oh there are lots more . . .
viscount17
Money List Winner
guy fawkes had the right idea, roast a few occasionally 'pour encourager les autres'
StuartD
Tour Rookie
NO!! NO!! NO!! NO!! NO!!!!!
That is how we have ended up with the SNP in charge up here
madandra
Money List Winner
I agree with Stuart ... The SNP are the worst thing to happen to Scotland in my lifetime. All they can do is offer cheap gimmicks like reduced prescriptions (get the effers off the sick and back to work) and doind away with paid parking in hospitals which is a good idea but there are plenty more important issues that needed addressing before this one.
Tommo21
Tour Winner
I know what you mean but I'm on medication for life and it's saving me a small fortune.....still dont like the SNP and what a total waste of money that monstrosity of a building the Scottish parliament is…..It wouldn’t fit in Drumchapel and that’s no disrespect to the drummers, I stayed there at one time. It’s shocking, cost a fortune and it’s ugly beyond belief. I wasn’t going to bother about this but one or two things struck a cord. First of all if anyone wants to blame the Brown for the downturn then you should take a trip over to the US. My brother and a good mate of mine are over there often and they seen this coming long before we even got a sniff of it here. In saying that, I’m not sure if GB way of dealing with it will work. The big problem as I see it is first time buyers, most of them have been effectively cut off, unless they can find a big wad of cash as a deposit. Take out the first time buyers and the second run of the property ladder freezes and so does the next and so on. Effectively we’ve cut the head off the snake. Now I’m not for throwing a mortgage at the ones who will struggle to keep up the payments, but we need to help those that can afford to pay, but don’t have 30 grand or so down payment.
The young couple next door to me moved in last June and their house is now worth less, but when they first moved in they spent a small fortune on fixtures and fittings, re-decorated the house, new TV, fridgefreezer, cooker, new sky, new decking out the back, new hut, and they also got a second car. If you stop all that up and down the country then it all grinds to a halt and that’s what’s happened. My daughter buys and sells houses, she stays in each one as she goes along and if you’re clever and willing to take the risk you can make a few bob. Every time she moved it was a new kitchen or a new bathroom, or shower room. She’s not even contemplating moving now and if all the people who were doing that stop the result is a major slow down on everything. Silly bankers were throwing money at people and there all getting away with it, and now they’re getting all our money as well with this so called bail out…….we’ll all pay for this yet. You can still walk up and down the high street and get credit card after credit card. Lots of the younger ones at my work have a wallet or purse full of them and they live off money they haven’t got. The credit card companies just don’t care one jot, in fact they don’t want them to pay so they can make a small fortune in the long run. Credit card companies are only interested if the person can pay the minimum payment….thats it. Years ago you bought what you could afford, now they just buy what they want without thinking about it and without any money in the first place.
I’m just getting started.
