FAO Scottish golfers.

[User101]

I'll take it back to my topic the other week about declining numbers, many in that topic disputed or disagreed with my posting, but that video in the OP in this topic proves the very point I was making in the other topic. (This may be a Scotland specific issue though)

Question I wonder is, where has everyone gone ?? The club I recently joined someone had to die for you to get in, that's long gone now.

 

[chrisd]

I'll take it back to my topic the other week about declining numbers, many in that topic disputed or disagreed with my posting, but that video in the OP in this topic proves the very point I was making in the other topic. (This may be a Scotland specific issue though)

Question I wonder is, where has everyone gone ?? The club I recently joined someone had to die for you to get in, that's long gone now.

Young people dont join and those who play are more nomadic, old members die, get unfit and pack up and there are fewer people filling the spaces

 

[brendy]

I'll take it back to my topic the other week about declining numbers, many in that topic disputed or disagreed with my posting, but that video in the OP in this topic proves the very point I was making in the other topic. (This may be a Scotland specific issue though)

Question I wonder is, where has everyone gone ?? The club I recently joined someone had to die for you to get in, that's long gone now.

It's an ageing population majority that can invest the most time in golf.
I joined my current club when I was 30, I'm 41 now and still seen as young. The average age at our place 2 years ago was 58 and a stab would say most of that age or older are retired.
Only for my love of playing golf I'd have a hard time justifying 52 rounds (25 full rounds and maybe the remaining shortened non Q rounds). Basically I'm paying the most, playing the least due to family commitments at the weekend. For me it's a very expensive 1 day membership at 1k per year. I see other guys leave the club then come back shortly after (months, sometimes years) to take advantage of zero joining fees and reduced first year fees etc, older guys getting quite chunky discounts because of age, these guys are wealthier than me but also with ten times the available time to play on the course and use its facilities.
I'm not surprised clubs struggle to attract "younger" members when they are only there to fund the other discounted members.
During the winter we continue to have comps though non Q, they decided to enable people to play any day in the week for their score to contribute to the team scores....so 5 day and 6 day members basically have the same abilities as us 1 day members. It simply isn't on.

 

[User101]

During the winter we continue to have comps though non Q, they decided to enable people to play any day in the week for their score to contribute to the team scores....so 5 day and 6 day members basically have the same abilities as us 1 day members. It simply isn't on.

But that's not the clubs fault, that's yours, but your whole post is very valid.

 

[User101]

Young people dont join and those who play are more nomadic, old members die, get unfit and pack up and there are fewer people filling the spaces

As patrick pointed out earlier, it's the older players that are the majority and probably always will be, the video clearly points out that giving cheaper fees to younger members isn't actually paying off.

 

[chrisd]

, the video clearly points out that giving cheaper fees to younger members isn't actually paying off.

And generally pee's off us older players living off a pension

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And generally pee's off us older players living off a pension

Pensioners at our club that have retired also get reduced fees and are able to play a lot more golf so value for money they are getting the best deal out of anyone at the club and most have more desposable income than people under the age of 30

 

[94tegsi]

Hard to argue anything on the presentation really.

Only thing I would say, along the lines of what some others have said is... that the presentation only tracks numbers of golf members, that doesn't necessarily mean that the amount of people playing, or more importantly the revenues from golf is decreasing in line with that. More people just play when they can, without a membership.
It's a possibility that in some cases, more people play because they can do more easily without having to be a member. So I think there are a couple of data points required to give this presentation balance to drive correct decision making.

Members don't have to be the holy grail for many clubs anymore.

 

[Tommo21]

Pensioners at our club that have retired also get reduced fees and are able to play a lot more golf so value for money they are getting the best deal out of anyone at the club and most have more desposable income than people under the age of 30

I'll be interested to know what source of information corroborates your disposable income statement. Besides that, the private clubs I'm at don't hand out reduced rates to the retired unless they have been members for many, many years before that. So in real terms these guys have paid lots of money and many of them have also pull in new members over the years. I also know a few guys who are on a tight budget and they depend on their reduced rates.

 

[duncan mackie]

Yep, everyone is chasing under 30's who either don't have the time inclination or money to play and neglect the people who are the already the age group playing. keep getting trotted out that its older people playing like that's a negative.

With the advent of forum history I feel confident stating that I've been advocating this for quite some time!

Scotland has a particular set of problems that are part historical (many memberships were dirt cheap) and part developing demographics, but ultimately golf is a leisure industry and its appeal will wax and wane.
As such more effort should be probably be put into senior sections than any other in ensuring that clubs and courses appeal - not withstanding the need to do everything possible to introduce kids to the game (but without the unrealsistec expectation that they will stick at it - more the hope that seeds sown will eventually bloom)

 

[duncan mackie]

Pensioners at our club that have retired also get reduced fees and are able to play a lot more golf so value for money they are getting the best deal out of anyone at the club and most have more desposable income than people under the age of 30

Senior reductions pretty much gone at most clubs down South. 5 day memberships have increased relative to 7 day at many as well.

I would agree that pensioner golf club members will almost certainly have more disposable income than under 30's currently - whether this is still the case in 50 years would be an interesting debate!

 

[NWJocko]

Yep, everyone is chasing under 30's who either don't have the time inclination or money to play and neglect the people who are the already the age group playing. keep getting trotted out that its older people playing like that's a negative.

Was discussing this recently and, IMO, it's largely a waste of effort chasing the 20-30 age group....

A lot of my mates at the club are 35-45 who have packed in football/rugby/cricket/hockey and now settled with kids etc etc, that's the demographic golf clubs should be targetting, IMO

I wasn't a member anywhere in my 20's due to work, drinking, football, drinking and drinking!! Better things to spend money on that age.

 

[User101]

Hard to argue anything on the presentation really.

Only thing I would say, along the lines of what some others have said is... that the presentation only tracks numbers of golf members, that doesn't necessarily mean that the amount of people playing, or more importantly the revenues from golf is decreasing in line with that. More people just play when they can, without a membership.
It's a possibility that in some cases, more people play because they can do more easily without having to be a member. So I think there are a couple of data points required to give this presentation balance to drive correct decision making.

Members don't have to be the holy grail for many clubs anymore.

I'm struggling to understand the point you are trying to make, if a club doesn't have members, where does it get it's income from ??

 

[Cake]

I'm struggling to understand the point you are trying to make, if a club doesn't have members, where does it get it's income from ??

I think 94tegsi is suggesting that people are still playing golf, just not becoming members of clubs... so play as visitors, paying as they go. And what is missing from the analysis (I haven’t watched the video so am only hypothesising from other posts) is whether there could be enough income from nomads paying visitor rates to offset the reduction in membership fees.

At least that is my interpretation

 

[User101]

I think 94tegsi is suggesting that people are still playing golf, just not becoming members of clubs... so play as visitors, paying as they go. And what is missing from the analysis (I haven’t watched the video so am only hypothesising from other posts) is whether there could be enough income from nomads paying visitor rates to offset the reduction in membership fees.

At least that is my interpretation

yes it is touched on in the vid, and the point is clearly made that visitors are getting a far better deal than fully paid up members, some needing to play 40+ games to "justify" membership, so may be clubs are charging visitors too cheap, but that's a gamble, make it to dear and they don't come.

 

[patricks148]

Was discussing this recently and, IMO, it's largely a waste of effort chasing the 20-30 age group....

A lot of my mates at the club are 35-45 who have packed in football/rugby/cricket/hockey and now settled with kids etc etc, that's the demographic golf clubs should be targetting, IMO

I wasn't a member anywhere in my 20's due to work, drinking, football, drinking and drinking!! Better things to spend money on that age.

I didn't start playing until i was in my 40's, golf had no interest to me before that as i was still playing cricket to a pretty high standard. Once the body started to struggle with this, it was time to cut down and try something else. I can't be the only person this is true of.

 

[patricks148]

I'll be interested to know what source of information corroborates your disposable income statement. Besides that, the private clubs I'm at don't hand out reduced rates to the retired unless they have been members for many, many years before that. So in real terms these guys have paid lots of money and many of them have also pull in new members over the years. I also know a few guys who are on a tight budget and they depend on their reduced rates.

same here, you had to be on full fee's for at least 25 years to get the reduced rate and that was phased out a few years ago. Even so the senior fee is still higher than the under 30's.

 

[User20205]

Was discussing this recently and, IMO, it's largely a waste of effort chasing the 20-30 age group....

A lot of my mates at the club are 35-45 who have packed in football/rugby/cricket/hockey and now settled with kids etc etc, that's the demographic golf clubs should be targetting, IMO

I wasn't a member anywhere in my 20's due to work, drinking, football, drinking and drinking!! Better things to spend money on that age.

I didn't start playing until i was in my 40's, golf had no interest to me before that as i was still playing cricket to a pretty high standard. Once the body started to struggle with this, it was time to cut down and try something else. I can't be the only person this is true of.

It’s not an either or but a both. All demographics should be targeted using a package that is specifically attractive to their needs, but I fully agree that the area that would yield short to med term results would be the 30-50 male, sporting enthusiast. It’s a consumer driven market now

The challenge is not annoying existing members or other clubs

 

[patricks148]

I think 94tegsi is suggesting that people are still playing golf, just not becoming members of clubs... so play as visitors, paying as they go. And what is missing from the analysis (I haven’t watched the video so am only hypothesising from other posts) is whether there could be enough income from nomads paying visitor rates to offset the reduction in membership fees.

At least that is my interpretation

Only trouble is with the increase in nomads, that just means more golf clubs would go under.

A GC needs a steady cash flow to survive and, people playing in just the summer on reduces offer rates won't keep a club going.

 

[User20205]

Hard to survive on a variable income when you have fixed overheads, especially if some are driving the price of a green fee down. 241 vouchers, tee times etc are partly to blame. I once paid £8 for a round when I was a nomad, how is that good for Golf?