Fade v Draw

[Ken_A]

I understand the shot shapes and understand the basics of how they are achieved - however I must admit normally the wrong one happens for me.

I am of the understanding that the holy grail (the draw) travels the furthest but why does a fade not travel the same?

I do not see any directional patterns on balls. My engineering sences tell me it is a relationship of the clubface angle at impact (ie closed face=draw=stronger loft), however, this could be a load of nonsense. Can anyone shed any light on this.

 

[John_Findlay]

Yes Ken,

For right handers generally a draw means less backspin (some people say more topspin but that's wrong) with a closed (stronger) clubface, a fade more backspin with an open clubface, hence less distance.

 

[Ken_A]

If there is more backspin on the ball (fade for RH players) I persume it will have a tendancy to balloon in a headwind unlike a lowerspinning ball- also does the backspin differance create different height shots when wind is not a factor?

Sorry but my boring gland (brain) seems to want to know all these outcomes.

 

[benny]

You can hit a high draw or a low fade too which is when it gets really interesting! Draws tend to fly short and run on and Fades fly the full yardage and stop straight away. But if you move the ball back and hit a fade you'll get a low runner (Stinger*TM) that goes through the wind without ballooning or move the ball forwards and hit a draw you'll be onto one of the best looking and hardest to hit shots in the book. I remember Nick Dougherty hitting one at Wentworth last year on telly and Sam Torrance remarked 'An inordinate amount of class needed to hit that shot'. Tiger Woods and Nick Faldo both mastered the high draw with winning majors in mind but don't fret - David Duval hit a fade for his stock shot in his Superman Period of 99-01 (including a 59), Monty couldn't hit a draw for peanuts until the turn of the Millenium and ofcourse dear old Jack hit everything with a fade with the ball off his left heel - driver to wedge!!!
Don't worry if one or the other is taking time to come together for you - you can still make great scores with just the one shot.

 

[Page]

it's kind of similar to free kicks in football or tennis shots. consider a ball kicked as a curler (inside of the boot) or a forehand shot. this genrates both a degree of top (or less back spin) and side spin. the opposite is true for a back hand/outside of the boot swerve shot. this tends to have a degree of back spin which holds the ball up and slows it's progress.

 

[Ken_A]

Draws tend to fly short and run on and Fades fly the full yardage and stop straight away.

You seem to have pre empted my next question.

I think I will be happy with the reasons for now - my brain seems to be more talented than my body when it comes to golf!!

it's kind of similar to free kicks in football. consider a ball kicked as a curler (inside of the boot. this genrates both a degree of top (or less back spin) and side spin. the opposite is true for a outside of the boot swerve shot. this tends to have a degree of back spin which holds the ball up and slows it's progress.

This is a great way to explain the theory - it certainly hit home with me, thanks.

 

[haplesshacker]

Nice to be able to have the choice! Tried it down the driving range and predominately got hooks or slices, so went back to my usual shot (something between a draw and a hook.

I've been told that a draw is good for extra distance (extra roll) and a fade is good for iron shots onto greens as the ball rolls less. Don't know if this true or not.

 

[backwoodsman]

I lob this in for perusal... I claim no expertise on this, but whereas everyone above has alluded to more/less top-spin & back-spin as being the difference, when I questioned ny pro as to why the difference (ie why try to teach me the draw as a standard shot rather than the fade) he was quite emphatic that they are not the reverse of each other. The draw he said was caused by top-spin, but the fade was side spin...

 

[Nico]

Spot on backwoodsman,that is why a draw will roll further when it hits the floor.
A fade has a tendency to fly higher because the side spin generates more lift.

 

[John_Findlay]

Not so sure about this topspin theory, Nico and Backwoodsman, hence what I said earlier in the post.

If your pro has ever put a flight monitor on his ball I think he would find there is no topspin whatsoever on a drawing ball. It's not a ping pong ball. It's a golf ball. It is dimpled to create backspin to get it in the air at all. This topspin thing is a myth. If there was any we'd all be carrying the ball exactly 3 yards.

 

[shanker]

Ive read that the only golf shot with topspin is a full top.
A drawn shot does not have topspin. It has much less backspin, however, than a fade or slice. That's why it runs further when it hits the fairway.

 

[backwoodsman]

Like I said, I claim no expertise and readily bow to the "not much back spin" version of the draw. What I found interesting was the assertion that the fade had side spin. ie the two were not opposites, nor greater than/lesser than versions of each other but that the spin was in a different plane.

 

[viscount17]

at what point does the side spin applied to generate the fade instead create a slice?

 

[Lloydy84]

Interesting post, sorry, i haven't been on here in ages, have literally been playing in every spare second. I do aggree with J_F about the theory of top spin, i don't believe you can get the ball spinning forwards without minus loft. haha. I used to hit draws, but this week, i've changed my swing, i now find it easier to hit a fade, so have been practicing them, especially for today, ( played Ilkly G.C, Monty's home club as a junior) and most holes suit fades. I actually found that the slight fade i was achieving was much more controlable than a draw flight. Hence i only missed 2 fairways. And 3 greens! The fade didn't seem to lose me any distance at all, well maybe the dead straight ones rolled a few yards more.