bobmac
Major Champion
Max shutting the door on Ocon who was a lap behind him.
The pink car was given a 10 second penalty for causing Max to drive into him.
F1 2021
- Thread starter SaintHacker
- Start date
Max shutting the door on Ocon who was a lap behind him.
The pink car was given a 10 second penalty for causing Max to drive into him.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Classic Max. It is like he is the only guy on the race track, in that he expects everyone to disappear. Quick driver, absolutely. Good racer, not at all in my opinion. We see much better racing between many drivers much further down the grid. He is so far over the threshold between confidence and arrogance, and he has a team that constantly treat him like a spoilt child and tell him how fantastic he is. I think Red Bull are scared of upsetting him. I do not think that they ever reprimand him at all, otherwise he wouldn't come across so arrogant in every interview. Even this weekend, he simply explains the Mercedes appeal as a consequence that they got lots of penalties, and are trying to get some sort of revenge. Had Red Bull privately told him he was a very lucky boy and to not do it again, he'd at least come across as more humble, without actually needing to own up that is waa a mistake to the press
cliveb
Head Pro
In principle that's a good point.
But the whole air of the way Red Bull talk to and about Max tells me that they regard him as some kind of golden boy who Shall Not Be Criticised. If Horner or Marko have ever taken him aside and given him a dressing down, he doesn't seem to have listened.
(Incidentally, I can recall occasions when the Merc management - especially Lauda - have publicly criticised their drivers, eg. after the Hamilton/Rosberg crash in Spain)
bobmac
Major Champion
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
Ocon ignored the blue flag, he then presented himself as an obstacle.. he was at fault. Max is impatient for sure and should have let the officials deal with it but if he was running away or chasing down it’s a nuisance (think that was a Mercedes powered car as well) that cannot take time to be resolved
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
Montoya as a voice of reason ? Really ? Come on, look at this guy’s history and behaviour. I particularly like the outburst about how he was going to kill the camera man he walked into because he “broke” his head ..
Swango1980
Well-known member
Always have a reason why someone's opinion are invalid. On this forum, our opinion needs to be treated with caution as we've never been in that position (have any of us, regardless of what side of the fence we're on?). With Montoya, you throw something else at him. However, interestingly your point almost kills some of the supportive arguments for Max. Because, if Montoya has had a dodgy "history and behaviour", then it stands to reason he is not the only driver in this position. Therefore, Max Verstappen could well be developing a similar track record of dodgy behaviour that will be frowned upon when we look back on it and view it as history.
Canary_Yellow
Journeyman Pro
Are you talking about the same incident? Ocon was unlapping himself, there wasn't a blue flag
Canary_Yellow
Journeyman Pro
I still dont think max did want to cause a collision, it's just how he drives, i.e. relentlessly aggressive, taking a risky approach and assuming the other driver involved will want to avoid a collision and that will be to his advantage. Kind of like the prisoner's dilemma! It benefits him as more often than not, the other person backs out, but there is the potential for max to lose out big time.
Foxholer
Blackballed
MV has always been an aggressive driver! Hamilton, imo, has become slightly less aggressive than he used to be - quite likely because of having superior 'equipment' as demonstrated last weekend.
Even if reviewed, I don't believe there'll be a penalty from this incident - though perhaps a warning. The fact that LH dropped back from the initial overtake manoeuver indicated, to me, his acceptance that he was not (going to be) able to pass cleanly and (seperately) MV was entitled to 'protect' his position through the corner. There was plenty of room, albeit not 'real track' so not actually 'dangerous' imo. Pleased that LH got past him - as always looked likely - cleanly though.
Piece
Tour Winner
Moving on from Maxgate. the new circuit in Qatar looks a bit soulless. Perhaps under lights it will come alive.
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
That was the irony of your post, your happily say Max has form and just saying it’s behaviour true to form, and then you take a sound bite from some Montoya. Montoya‘s behaviour was more off circuit, that questions his opinion as reasonable.
I think your just anti Max on any level, and rational or pragmatic opinion is not deployed.
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
Which incident are you using ? As any vehicle that has been shown the blue flag needs to get out of the way
Canary_Yellow
Journeyman Pro
Brazil 2018, Bob put a picture of it, you replied....
Verstappen was ahead of Ocon (on the track, and by a lap), Ocon decided to unlap himself down the pit straight as he had fresh tyres and the pace to do so, he pulled level (see Bob's pic), Max turned in on him into turn 2.
Ocon was being a bit of a plank, but was entitled to overtake, the crash was Max's fault, but Ocon got the blame because he was a lapped car.
Thought you knew everything there was to know about F1?!
Canary_Yellow
Journeyman Pro
I hope so, it's a bit uninteresting to look at!
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
We see greater risks when the machinery is equal, Hamilton knew he had an advantage other drivers just let him pass. Back in the day Brazil was a tough overtaking circuit, unless you had an advantage. I think 2006 was a good case to review where we see the Ferrari light it up ( Massa I think) but that was because the Bridgestone had figured it out, and the car set up optimised .
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
I stopped watching it, and Ocon was a plank and getting in the way of a race… lapped cars are just mobile chicanes and only fighting for durability and minor points .
Sorry if I come across like that, I will leave you all to it, as I am causing upset.
Canary_Yellow
Journeyman Pro
You're not causing upset Harpo, and I was just teasing as you have a very strong view on everything on here - which is your prerogative!
Swango1980
Well-known member
I am anti Max, I've not been shy of admitting that. This particular incident is just another incident as to why I dislike him, and Red Bull so much. I never said I was or wasn't a Montoya fan, simply highlighted his opinion as an ex F1 driver.
Did Max WANT the crash. Probably not, although I cannot read his mind and the crash would likely have worked to his advantage. Would he have felt a crash was a possibility if he completely got his braking point wrong? He certainly must have done, otherwise he is completely deluded. So, the question is, was that risk fair? In my opinion, absolutely not. Had Max avoided that "mistake" we would have seen good racing. We'd have known whether Lewis could have made the overtake on the outside, or whether Max would have regained position going up the inside and getting a better exit. However, we were robbed seeing that when Max failed to brake and and simply pushed them both clean off the circuit. Max could have avoided this, Lewis could not without crashing into the car charging up from behind him.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Aren't all circuits in these types of places usually uninspiring? What are your favourite circuits, mine are:
- Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, Canada
- Silverstone
- Spa
- Monza
- Monaco (well, the race is often a bit rubbish, but I still get excited in the build up at least)
