F1 2021

[Canary_Yellow]

That’s a bit hypothetical , we don’t know that for sure. Hamilton had not done enough in this effort, but had Max capitulated would Hamilton’s line been good enough to stay inside the circuit confines ( which brings me back to an earlier point would he have tried if there was no run off) . If there was any brake locking, the car would not turn

I think I can see some excellent new tactics becoming available under Harpo's rules for F1.

Defence tactic: Always defend the inside and don't bother applying the brakes as the car behind attacks the outside. Just carry on off the track and take the car on the outside with you until you've redefined the corner to your satisfaction and rejoin the circuit at your leisure.

Overtaking tactic: Lick a stamp and send it up the inside, from as far back as you want, don't bother trying to make the corner, as with the defence tactic, because you've entered the corner 50mph too fast, you're now ahead and are free to redefine where the corner is. Rejoin the circuit at your leisure with at least one place gained.

 

[bobmac]

Bob on entry he hadn’t broken any rules .. that’s the point, in the mid it’s a clusterf**k but that’s irrelevant

I didn't say that.
He forced a driver off the track by exceeding the speed required to successfully negotiate the corner without exceeding track limits

 

[Piece]

That’s a bit hypothetical , we don’t know that for sure. Hamilton had not done enough in this effort, but had Max capitulated would Hamilton’s line been good enough to stay inside the circuit confines ( which brings me back to an earlier point would he have tried if there was no run off) . If there was any brake locking, the car would not turn

Hamilton had done enough to take the corner legitimately as his double manoeuvre showed (one to turn in correctly, the other to avoid contact).

 

[SaintHacker]

Red bulls reaction on the radio (its all about letting them race) and then conveniently not having the onboard footage sums it up for me, Max messed up and they know it.

 

[cliveb]

Red bulls reaction on the radio (its all about letting them race) and then conveniently not having the onboard footage sums it up for me, Max messed up and they know it.

Indeed. The fact that RB were on the radio to the FIA straight away, using the "let them race" angle, means they knew straight away that Max had been a naughty boy.

The thing that bothers me more, though, is that it appears RB praised Max after the race.
Once again they failed to tell him that he's ****ed up, and so once again he won't learn.
It seems that the only person allowed to tell Max off is his dad.

 

[Imurg]

Apparently turn 4 at Interlagos is to be renamed The Verstappen Striaght.............

 

[Swango1980]

Just seen that Leclerc has said he is awaiting the final outcome of the stewards decision on the Verstappen incident. If it is not overturned, he will change his driving style accordingly, admitting it would make it very difficult to overtake on the outside in the future. Interesting perspective from another driver, and certainly feels like it would kill "racing" rather than make it better. Also suggests he felt it should be illegal, as if he thought it was legal he'd have no need to change his driving style.

 

[harpo_72]

Decision tomorrow as to whether to review the original decision… https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...of-review-request.5Ikdh8jcV2S2NIA47QH5Hb.html

 

[woofers]

I occasionally tune in to F1 as its getting bit more interesting now than of late (I am from the Mansell, Prost, Senna era) and will probably watch the remaining GPs.
Are there no penalties for exceeding track limits? In Moto GP bike racing if you exceed track limits, however marginal, 3? times you get a warning, do it again and you get a ‘long lap’ penalty.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Indeed. The fact that RB were on the radio to the FIA straight away, using the "let them race" angle, means they knew straight away that Max had been a naughty boy.

The thing that bothers me more, though, is that it appears RB praised Max after the race.
Once again they failed to tell him that he's ****ed up, and so once again he won't learn.
It seems that the only person allowed to tell Max off is his dad.

When have you ever heard a decent manager hang a team member out to dry in public?

If he's going to be bolllocked it will be off air.

 

[harpo_72]

When have you ever heard a decent manager hang a team member out to dry in public?

If he's going to be blocked it will be off air.

Precisely that , you don’t wash the laundry in public. But the telling part of all this was the casual dismissal by Hamilton of the whole proceedings.

Nor has anyone looked at the video and seen the speed deficits through the corner or remarked on the DRS closing up and loss of 30kph on entry .. really highlighted Hamilton’s braking visually.

 

[Beedee]

I occasionally tune in to F1 as its getting bit more interesting now than of late (I am from the Mansell, Prost, Senna era) and will probably watch the remaining GPs.
Are there no penalties for exceeding track limits? In Moto GP bike racing if you exceed track limits, however marginal, 3? times you get a warning, do it again and you get a ‘long lap’ penalty.

In F1, sometimes, the stewards declare that particular corners are subject to track limits. In qualifying any lap that breaches track limits get disqualified. In the race, your get 2 or 3 wrist slaps before an official warning. After the warning is a time penalty. The definition of the track also varies from circuit to circuit. At some the track is defined by the white line. At some the track is defined by the farthest extent of the kerb. It's a complete mess.

Personal opinion only, any lap that breaches any track limits should be subject to review. If the driver keeps their foot in then it should be a warning/penalty. The stewards say that on some corners there's no benefit from going wide. Well in that case why do the drivers do it lap after lap? There's a benefit!! If there wasn't they wouldn't keep doing it!!

 

[Hobbit]

Mmm, Hamilton got Copse wrong at Silverstone, ran wide and Verstappen hit him. Verstappen pulls the same(Hamilton) manoeuvre at Interlago, up the inside, and it’s ok?

 

[Beedee]

Mmm, Hamilton got Copse wrong at Silverstone, ran wide and Verstappen hit him. Verstappen pulls the same(Hamilton) manoeuvre at Interlago, up the inside, and it’s ok?

At Silverstone, Hamilton missed the apex slightly - he didn't miss the entire track! At Inter Lagos, Verstappen wasn't even close to making the corner (and Verstappen is far too good a driver to think that he didn't realise that going into that corner on the dirty side of the track at that speed wouldn't result in leaving the track at the absolute minimum)

At Silverstone, Verstappen could easily have run slightly wide and avoided the crash. He chose not to. He always chooses not to. His entire approach is I AM putting my car here; if you don't want a crash then YOU must give way. It didn't work for him at Silverstone. At Inter Lagos, Hamilton chose to avoid the crash.

Same at Monza. Hamilton had the corner at the first chicane. Verstappen doesn't give way when he had zero chance of making the corner. Result = another collision and Hamilton gets a car on his head.

 

[bobmac]

Just seen that Leclerc has said he is awaiting the final outcome of the stewards decision on the Verstappen incident. If it is not overturned, he will change his driving style accordingly, admitting it would make it very difficult to overtake on the outside in the future. Interesting perspective from another driver, and certainly feels like it would kill "racing" rather than make it better. Also suggests he felt it should be illegal, as if he thought it was legal he'd have no need to change his driving style.

And there lies the problem.
The stewards won't want to admit they were wrong but if they don't give Max a penalty of some sort, it's open season.
I predict Bottas will push Max off the track on the first lap at turn 1 on Sunday.

 

[Smiffy]

I predict Bottas will push Max off the track on the first lap at turn 1 on Sunday.

He hasn't got the minerals Bob.

 

[Swango1980]

At Silverstone, Hamilton missed the apex slightly - he didn't miss the entire track! At Inter Lagos, Verstappen wasn't even close to making the corner (and Verstappen is far too good a driver to think that he didn't realise that going into that corner on the dirty side of the track at that speed wouldn't result in leaving the track at the absolute minimum)

At Silverstone, Verstappen could easily have run slightly wide and avoided the crash. He chose not to. He always chooses not to. His entire approach is I AM putting my car here; if you don't want a crash then YOU must give way. It didn't work for him at Silverstone. At Inter Lagos, Hamilton chose to avoid the crash.

Same at Monza. Hamilton had the corner at the first chicane. Verstappen doesn't give way when he had zero chance of making the corner. Result = another collision and Hamilton gets a car on his head.

Exactly this. And, despite Hamilton only slightly missing the apex, and Verstappen being stupid enough to turn in and assume Hamilton would suddenly vanish into thin air, Red Bull and Max were furious with Hamilton. It was all Hamilton's fault, Max even accused Hamilton of no class when he celebrates his win while Max was in hospital (despite Hamilton being completely oblivious to this fact straight after the win). How their view changes when golden boy Max decides to pretty much go straight on to run them both off the track.

 

[bobmac]

Decision tomorrow as to whether to review the original decision… https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...of-review-request.5Ikdh8jcV2S2NIA47QH5Hb.html

I've just read that again....
They are going to announce their decision today whether or not they are going to investigate the incident.
Luckily for them they've got loads of time before the next GP

 

[Swango1980]

And there lies the problem.
The stewards won't want to admit they were wrong but if they don't give Max a penalty of some sort, it's open season.
I predict Bottas will push Max off the track on the first lap at turn 1 on Sunday.

Absolutely. All it does is tell drivers they can charge up the inside and force themselves and the driver on the outside off the track. As harpo says, they are entitled to make that "mistake".

Interesting to hear some other driver views. Russell says it was OK in end as Lewis won, but had he finished second it would have been a travesty.

Saw an interview with Montoya, who basically said that he believed Max did it intentionally, knowing that even a crash would be to his benefit. So, when people on this forum cannot comprehend the fact drivers will happily risk a crash, it is interesting to hear someone like Montoya say it like it is. None of us, I assume, have experienced being a formula 1 driver, we can only speak on what we have seen over the years. But I assume Montoya is qualified enough to state that drivers will take risks that could well end in a crash, and even see a crash as a positive outcome.

 

[Swango1980]

I've just read that again....
They are going to announce their decision today whether or not they are going to investigate the incident.
Luckily for them they've got loads of time before the next GP

In a way, I hope they don't investigate it. I can see it setting a precedent that is going to come back and bite them in the backside. Nothing like controversy to spice things up. Will Perez acceptably ram Hamilton out of a race. Will Bottas ram Verstappen out of a race. Each team will have a star driver to try and win the race, and a bruiser driver to try and take out the star drivers of other teams. Going to be great