European Super League

[Blue in Munich]

Post #327. Rule L.9

This is where the fun will start; can they enter a competition this season that doesn't start until next season? I can hear the lawyers ringing the Ferrari dealers now...

 

[Lord Tyrion]

This is where the fun will start; can they enter a competition this season that doesn't start until next season? I can hear the lawyers ringing the Ferrari dealers now...

Dock the points this season, dock the points next season? Take your pick.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

They still intended competing in the Premier League so they are hardly trying to cripple that; they were looking like leaving the Champions League just as UEFA was going to change the competition to add an extra 100 games and a further 4 teams. Were UEFA doing that to save football or out of the same pure greed that the "Big 6" have been accused of?

For clarification, that is not to say that two wrongs make a right; I'm just pointing out that whilst the teams involved are rightly being vilified, UEFA seem to be getting a pass.

As for the greed aspect, if the figures I have seen were correct & panned out, the ESL was offering to give back to football a sum 67% above that which UEFA currently provide. Who's greedy...

Maybe if they’d of waited for the UEFA announcement then came out with the proposed ESL in reaction to it, they may, may of got a fair hearing and gathered some support, by doing what they did it has took the spotlight off UEFA.

There’s no doubt the ESL was going to make a lot of money, but I know you understand there’s more to it than that.

It would of in my mind created a 2 tier PL, vastly different to now, damaged the FA and Carabao Cups, maybe not important to PL Clubs but huge to EFL and non-league Clubs, and all ignored by giving everyone hush money.

 

[Billysboots]

Bit disingenious to cut and paste part of wiki tash, the TV deal in 1992 was £304 million over 5 years, yes a hideous sum and yes part greed, but look at the background as to why? The Taylor Report had come out, Stadiums had to be improved, who was going to pay? I’d guess the Football Fan and without that change some Clubs may of gone under.

The so called “big 5” then also brought along 17 other Clubs in to the Premier League, didn’t want seperate competitions and increased relegation promotion with no one immune.

What they envisaged then to what we have now is beyond all recognition.

As I posted earlier, no doubt the ESL believed everyone would benefit from their seperation, but to me it was more than money, the formation of the PL was to benefit English football, not 9 other Clubs around Europe.

One further point, ( not aimed at you Tash) back in 18/19 when the charges against City for breaking the ffp system were brought, people also wanted City done for the legal loopholes they’d circumvented as well, so if it was ok to want to throw the book at them for that, I can understand people wanting action against the 6, even if proved they broke no rules.

But surely the reason fans of other clubs wanted the book thrown at City was because they perceived, rightly or otherwise, that City had sought to gain an unfair advantage over their Premier League rivals. The alleged financial irregularities were, if press reports were to be believed, intended to ensure City were not on a level playing field with the 19 other PL clubs, against whom they would continue to compete.

The result of the ESL proposal would have been very different. The clubs would not have gained any advantage over PL rivals because they would have been prevented from even participating in it.

Again, another very simplistic view I agree, but by saying that the 6 clubs should be docked points and banned from this or that, their fans suffering as a result, simply because other clubs and their fans have suffered a similar fate in the past, is comparing apples with pears.

If there is a way to punish the owners, I still say that is the way forward. And I say that regardless of my team colours. This scheme is something club owners have been plotting for years, in direct defiance of what the fans want and, as now seems very clear, managers and players. The owners wanted it, the owners worked towards it, and the owners stood to reap the financial rewards. It is those individuals who should now pay the price.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

But surely the reason fans of other clubs wanted the book thrown at City was because they perceived, rightly or otherwise, that City had sought to gain an unfair advantage over their Premier League rivals. The alleged financial irregularities were, if press reports were to be believed, intended to ensure City were not on a level playing field with the 19 other PL clubs, against whom they would continue to compete.

The result of the ESL proposal would have been very different. The clubs would not have gained any advantage over PL rivals because they would have been prevented from even participating in it.

Again, another very simplistic view I agree, but by saying that the 6 clubs should be docked points and banned from this or that, their fans suffering as a result, simply because other clubs and their fans have suffered a similar fate in the past, is comparing apples with pears.

If there is a way to punish the owners, I still say that is the way forward. And I say that regardless of my team colours. This scheme is something club owners have been plotting for years, in direct defiance of what the fans want and, as now seems very clear, managers and players. The owners wanted it, the owners worked towards it, and the owners stood to reap the financial rewards. It is those individuals who should now pay the price.

It is a simplistic view as you say and one I don’t agree with, but I can understand it, City were to face a ban from the CL, not the PL, so in affect UEFA were once again doing nothing for the PL. FFP is all about European Comps.

 

[Billysboots]

It is a simplistic view as you say and one I don’t agree with, but I can understand it, City were to face a ban from the CL, not the PL, so in affect UEFA were once again doing nothing for the PL. FFP is all about European Comps.

It’s difficult to be anything other than simplistic when considering something so complex which I have no real knowledge of!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It’s difficult to be anything other than simplistic when considering something so complex which I have no real knowledge of!

It was brought in under Platini’s watch and I’ll always be very cynical over it in that he saw the PL making huge amounts had foreign investors moving in and didn’t want English Football dominating Europe for years.

 

[Jimaroid]

Post #327. Rule L.9

As has been pointed out a few times, no team has broken that rule as it is written. It doesn't even need a legal interpretation although I foresee it may end up there.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Dock the points this season, dock the points next season? Take your pick.

Or implement the Leeds rule and do both! ?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

As has been pointed out a few times, no team has broken that rule as it is written. It doesn't even need a legal interpretation although I foresee it may end up there.

They signed up to enter the league. It states 'to enter or play'. They did the former, not yet the latter.

 

[YandaB]

Can the chairmen not be hit with the standard "Bringing the game into disrepute" that many off-field things appear to get hit with?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

So whilst a few English teams fans are moaning about the (rightly) dropped ESL plans, complaining about the money it would bring those in it, does anyone realise that every other league in UEFA is complaining about the money the PL teams have from their tv deals?
Every PL team is collectively guilty of exactly the same thing as those 6.

If the PL teams and fans are so concerned about the lower league teams, why did they vote down the Project Bug Picture that would have given the lower league teams a huge amount of money and support

 

[Lord Tyrion]

So whilst a few English teams fans are moaning about the (rightly) dropped ESL plans, complaining about the money it would bring those in it, does anyone realise that every other league in UEFA is complaining about the money the PL teams have from their tv deals?
Every PL team is collectively guilty of exactly the same thing as those 6.

If the PL teams and fans are so concerned about the lower league teams, why did they vote down the Project Bug Picture that would have given the lower league teams a huge amount of money and support

Absolutely nothing stopping any of those leagues marketing themselves as well as the PL, nothing at all. Also nothing stopping any team from a lower division joining that league, as long as they get there on merit.

Totally agree about the last part, no argument there.

 

[Whereditgo]

They signed up to enter the league. It states 'to enter or play'. They did the former, not yet the latter.

And the semantics of that would happily be argued in court making the legal guys a lot of money.

A 20 points deduction (as some have suggested) would make the following years CL less attractive as not all the best PL clubs would manage to qualify, UEFA are not going to like that surely.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

And the semantics of that would happily be argued in court making the legal guys a lot of money.

A 20 points deduction (as some have suggested) would make the following years CL less attractive as not all the best PL clubs would manage to qualify, UEFA are not going to like that surely.

Oh, completely.

You would expect that somewhere in the rules would be a list of punishments but I'm not sure there is.

Personally, I would go 10 point deduction. That punishes, sends a message, but does not damage the teams too greatly.

 

[Sweep]

If I was one of the 6 and we were hit with a 20 point deduction I would treat it as a “free year” and blood a team full of youngsters, building a team for the future. As long as you don’t get relegated you can’t really lose. No-one would expect you to win anything and as we know, you win nothing with kids. It would certainly provide breathing space and in the long run could save a shed load of cash.
Of course neither the deduction or playing kids is going to happen.

 

[Blue in Munich]

They signed up to enter the league. It states 'to enter or play'. They did the former, not yet the latter.

No, it says during the Season a club shall not enter or play... This is the 2020 - 2021 PL season. The ESL will not start at the earliest until August 2021 - 2022. So the lawyers will argue the toss around the meaning of during, Season and enter. Unless the PL has tightened up its regulations tighter than a shark's bottom at 50 fathoms, there is plenty of wriggle room.

Trust me on this one, it is not as black and white as it appears. If you don't believe me, get a copy of a statute and look at the definitions in the fine print. I'll stop there otherwise @Billysboots will start to get flashbacks again...

 

[Blue in Munich]

Let’s hope that doesn’t cross the political line..

 

[Tashyboy]

There’s something about this whole super league business that has me puzzled.
12 teams were competing, another 6 had said nope. Big banks in the USA were involved. People who were employed by UEFA were involved. And yet at no point did anyone whistleblow. Even the teams that were against it. No one said a dicky bird. We had an inkling the greedy clubs were up to a dastardly deed. But no one had any idea re what and when this failed league was going to start. A lot of people knew what was being planned and yet not a whisper. Why? Was it really that well planned and secretive. If any of the red tops had a sniff of this they would of been like flies round a day old turd. How they managed to keep it so quiet is beyond me.

 

[IanM]

How they managed to keep it so quiet is beyond me.

I am sure they were well rewarded for their silence