EU Referendum

[Region3]

Wonder how a referendum on how much income tax we pay would go!

Probably the same way letting MP's decide their own salaries would go

 

[SocketRocket]

Not that I'm in favour of Scottish independence, your analogy is a poor one. Comparable to suggesting that the EU should have decided whether the uk left or not.

But I dont advocate that view. It was in response to someone suggesting nothing should be put to a referendum.

 

[SocketRocket]

Corrupted that for you

Fixed that for you :smirk:

 

[SocketRocket]

I agree that many people have been left behind in recent years / decades, and they've seen this vote as an opportunity to air their displeasure.

What was apparent in the Adrian Chiles programme the other night was how few of the issues raised will be solved by leaving the EU. And in fact may be made worse.

Aint that just the same in electionions !

 

[FairwayDodger]

But I dont advocate that view. It was in response to someone suggesting nothing should be put to a referendum.

Yes, I know. On both counts. Just the analogy you used didn't really square with the circumstances of the referendum we just had. If you didn't mean to imply such a correlation I can only apologise.

 

[jp5]

Aint that just the same in electionions !

Difference is you get a chance to choose again every 5 years!

 

[jp5]

Some hypothetical situations...

"Labour / the Tories didn't deliver what they promised!" -> vote them out

"There isn't £350m a week extra for the NHS / there aren't less immigrants / the experts were right on the economy" ->

 

[FairwayDodger]

Some hypothetical situations...

"Labour / the Tories didn't deliver what they promised!" -> vote them out

"There isn't £350m a week extra for the NHS / there aren't less immigrants / the experts were right on the economy" ->

There's a debate going on in the lords about whether there should be a second referendum once the exit deal has been negotiated. In that way people would know exactly what they are voting for. It seems a sensible suggestion to me but, of course my bias is well known.

Alternatively, you take the recent vote as sacrosanct but ask the public to validate the negotiated deal. A yes vote means ok we leave on those terms. A no vote means we're still leaving but you need to renegotiate.

My guess in the latter scenario is that the politicians will never be able to negotiate a deal the public will sign off.

 

[MegaSteve]

What was apparent in the Adrian Chiles programme the other night was how few of the issues raised will be solved by leaving the EU. And in fact may be made worse.

Downside of working evenings is I miss out on some worthy programming... Have been told, by another, it's worth a watch so will try to do so on Iplayer over week end...

 

[Foxholer]

There's a debate going on in the lords about whether there should be a second referendum once the exit deal has been negotiated. In that way people would know exactly what they are voting for. It seems a sensible suggestion to me but, of course my bias is well known.

Alternatively, you take the recent vote as sacrosanct but ask the public to validate the negotiated deal. A yes vote means ok we leave on those terms. A no vote means we're still leaving but you need to renegotiate.

My guess in the latter scenario is that the politicians will never be able to negotiate a deal the public will sign off.

Unsure just exactly what that (another referendum) would really achieve! Much of the 'damage' to the economy would already have been done and the EU negotiators could (and probably should?) use the prospect of a rejection of a 'poor' deal to the disadvantage of UK's position - either by negotiating a 'bad' deal for UK that was accepted, or by 'forcing' a Remain vote in the subsequent referendum!

 

[FairwayDodger]

Unsure just exactly what that (another referendum) would really achieve! Much of the 'damage' to the economy would already have been done and the EU negotiators could (and probably should?) use the prospect of a rejection of a 'poor' deal to the disadvantage of UK's position - either by negotiating a 'bad' deal for UK that was accepted, or by 'forcing' a Remain vote in the subsequent referendum!

Yeah.... We're in a hole and there's no easy way out.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Yeah.... We're in a hole and there's no easy way out.

Absolutely!

I am a confirmed Remainer but the result is the result and as a nation we must all do whatever we can to make a post Brexit UK work.

 

[SocketRocket]

Difference is you get a chance to choose again every 5 years!

Which you don't get with the EU

 

[vkurup]

Absolutely!

I am a confirmed Remainer but the result is the result and as a nation we must all do whatever we can to make a post Brexit UK work.

Same here, we need to get on...
1) but what frustrates me is that the Leavers still are in denial that this could be tough, have a rose tinted view on our ability and want to kick anyone who is holding a mirror
2) Hate the uncertainty of what is going on. The only reality right now is gloom; yet to see a good news story. <pl spare me the notion that a collapsing sterling is good for exporters - it is too early to get that data>
3) We also need to remember that we are still a Parliamentary democracy. We need to ensure that the Parliament follows the due process of having listened to the people, have a proper debate and then decide (secretly hope/pray that Parliament decides to Remain thus putting the national well being ahead of individual's political ambitions)

 

[SocketRocket]

Yes, I know. On both counts. Just the analogy you used didn't really square with the circumstances of the referendum we just had. If you didn't mean to imply such a correlation I can only apologise.

It was a simple reply to a point saying we should never have referendums.

 

[SocketRocket]

Same here, we need to get on...
1) but what frustrates me is that the Leavers still are in denial that this could be tough, have a rose tinted view on our ability and want to kick anyone who is holding a mirror
2) Hate the uncertainty of what is going on. The only reality right now is gloom; yet to see a good news story. <pl spare me the notion that a collapsing sterling is good for exporters - it is too early to get that data>
3) We also need to remember that we are still a Parliamentary democracy. We need to ensure that the Parliament follows the due process of having listened to the people, have a proper debate and then decide (secretly hope/pray that Parliament decides to Remain thus putting the national well being ahead of individual's political ambitions)

You seem to have missed the point.made many times that we can expect some initial pain for things to get better.
You are also missing the point that the pm does not need a Parliamentary vote to begin the leave process.

 

[vkurup]

Does the PM need a Parliamentary vote for invoking Article 50... This is not clear.
>>Brexiters argue that PM could do it under royal prerogative >> http://www.theguardian.com/politics...iament-vote-article-50-government-lawyers-say

but be ready for being challenged in the supreme court on the validity of that + have the broad shoulders to be 'personally' responsible for taking the UK out of the EU
>> https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/201...le-50-trigger-parliaments-indispensable-role/

The last time I checked where a PM rode roughshod over Parliament, he was subject of an damning inquiry report this week.

 

[Oohmeoldbacksknackered]

If you're looking for a new job you carry on with your current one whilst talking to other companies. Then you confirm the offer in writing.
And THEN you hand in your notice.
Anyone who does it the other way round is a Dick.

Still haven't forgiven Cameron for being a Dick.

Just saying.......

 

[ger147]

Does the PM need a Parliamentary vote for invoking Article 50... This is not clear.
>>Brexiters argue that PM could do it under royal prerogative >> http://www.theguardian.com/politics...iament-vote-article-50-government-lawyers-say

but be ready for being challenged in the supreme court on the validity of that + have the broad shoulders to be 'personally' responsible for taking the UK out of the EU
>> https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/201...le-50-trigger-parliaments-indispensable-role/

The last time I checked where a PM rode roughshod over Parliament, he was subject of an damning inquiry report this week.

Parliament voted in favour of that particular war with the PM in question, so not a great example to use of a PM riding roughshod over parliament as the exact opposite is true in that example...

 

[Blue in Munich]

Parliament voted in favour of that particular war with the PM in question, so not a great example to use of a PM riding roughshod over parliament as the exact opposite is true in that example...

Although it would appears to be another fine example of a politician, or politicians, being economical with the truth.