SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
So science and technology, and finance have little relevance to you. What about the environment and conservation - do they have any relevance to you and your family.
EU Referendum
- Thread starter Doon frae Troon
- Start date
So science and technology, and finance have little relevance to you. What about the environment and conservation - do they have any relevance to you and your family.
Ethan
Money List Winner
I am saying that research is much better in this country because of EU involvement. I work in medicines development, and I know that British influence in the EMA (based in Canary Wharf) is important, and provides better medicines for the UK, as well as a great deal of work, trade and stimulation of the economy. That is just one example. If we have a Brexit, the EMA are moving, probably to Copenhagen.
But the last sentence is not elitist. It is a response to those who ignore that which they don't understand. I don't know crap about the origins of the universe, but if Stephen Hawking says something about it and that EU membership helps British scientists to take part in EU funded projects to study it (for example) then I trust that he knows what he is talking about. That is not elitism.
Anyone who dismisses his opinion because they don't understand it, or the relevance of it, is much worse than elitist. What is your preferred word for such a person?
Ethan
Money List Winner
Some of that IS reliant on staying in the EU, actually. The EU has a lot more leverage and medicines marketed in the EU are developed within the EU, approved by the EU and priced by the EU. Some of that would change, and I know for a fact that some American companies would relocate facilities from the UK. I work for such a firm who have Brexit plans in place.
But it wouldn't insult me if you used a coherent argument rather than ad hominem and bluster. With facts and information and all that sort of stuff.
And where did I say that everyone was not entitled to an equal vote? I did say some people are too stupid to vote, but they are still allowed to.
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Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Mmmn , a director of science research at Cambridge University or some bloke who doesn't think much has changed since the 60s yakking away on a golf forum.
Who to believe on how a Brexit will impact on science research.
Tough one......
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Old Skier
Tour Winner
The world was square prior to 1975, we ate grass and waited for the wheel to be invented.
Ethan
Money List Winner
Speak for yourself.
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
But no one from the remain campaign has been able or prepared to explain why a lot of this would change if we left and for those of us unsure on how we will vote, to make an informed decision, this is the info we need. And the same from the leave campaign on claims that they might make. They need to stop screaming "scaremongering" at any claim that remain make and explain why whatever the claim is won't happen............. To use one example from your list above, it seems fairly obvious that the Germans aren't going to stop making and selling us safe cars any more than we are going to stop buying them if we were to leave. So, the remain campaign needs to explain why they would................. Another example is scientific research on things like medicines. If the remain campaign (or people with knowledge of the subject which supports the remain campaign) say that this will be affected by a vote to leave the EU then the leave campaign need to explain why it won't change or what will take its place if it does change.................. The whole debate so far has revolved around sound bites and unsubstantiated claims from both sides without too much flesh being put on the bones. I suspect that suits the remain campaign more in so far as people that are undecided are more likely to vote for the status quo so it is up to the leave campaign to start giving details to back up their claims and that will hopefully force the remain campaign to start doing the same.EDIT - the row of dots are where the paragraphs should be
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ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
Apologies for the lack of paragraphs in the above post. For some reason my ridiculously slow, worse than dial up, internet connection is not recognising them and is posting as a continuous block of text despite me trying to edit it three times.
Ethan
Money List Winner
Drug development (including clinical trials and approval) is run on an EU basis these days. As I said before, the European Medicines Agency is even located in London and gets a lot of good jobs and local economic activity associated with it. It will have to move after a Brexit.
EU Regulations govern the standards for clinical trials, and shortly a new system will make doing trials in EU countries much smoother. with a unified EU-level single approval system. The UK might be able to stick with some of those standards, but US companies regard the EU as an entity and everywhere else, Switz, Norway, the non EU eastern European countries, differently. Then when it comes to launching the medicine, it also works on a EU basis. Some of the incentives and patent coverage work on a EU basis. The UK is already seen as a difficult place to launch a medicine, and some companies have considered not launching in there UK. That risk would shift to not even seeking approval in the first place with the UK ex-EU.
A lot of the US companies have quite a bit of their operation here. That has been slowly shifting to continental Europe recently, but that pace will quicken. Some established companies will move Euro HQs to the continent. Cheap medicines are allowed to be imported into the UK because of EU legislation. That may reduce.
One of the problems is the law of unintended consequences. As much as people may try to predict what would happen (as I have), there will be stuff that happens which we didn't see coming, possibly due to some arcane obscure law or regulation that would change following Brexit. It is possible that may be a good thing, but also that it is a bad thing. Business doesn't like that kind of uncertainty.
Ethan
Money List Winner
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-deporting-foreigners-for-hours-a6925781.html
Is this the sort of fine representative democracy you want more of in the UK?
Is this the sort of fine representative democracy you want more of in the UK?
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
You are entitled to whatever opinion you have on the subject and I respect that fact. However please don't paint that kind of picture of me, you don't even know me, do you? Why do you suggest my thinking is stuck in the sixties? I happen to disagree with Stephen Hawkins that research will be adversely affected by Brexit. Is it incomprehensible that someone may disagree with him.
FYI, I have been the Chief Executive of a Company that Develops and sells complex design and manufacturing software Worldwide. I have managed development projects with companies like Robert Bosch, Yamazaki Machinery, Mitsubishi, Charmilles Technologies, Agie and many more Worldwide. I have a degree in Production Engineering a Diploma in Business Management and I am a Fellow of the Chartered Institute of Management. I do not talk as someone who just yaks away on a Golf Forum, although like us all here I do that as well.
You are of course entitled to disagree with my views and consider them as worthless if you wish but make your case by discussion of the subject rather than dismissing my views as stupid.
Its so easy to Google Labour filibuster and see Labour doing exactly the same thing... so where is this democracy you speak of, coz it certainly isn't on the Labour benches either!
Del_Boy
Head Pro
I am 42 years old so have pretty much lived with England in the EU. Had a fairly decent life so far and can't see that changing to much in the future for either me or my family. You can argue the toss about whether that is because of my parents and me or the EU or both but to me the out campaign hasn't or can't tell me how my life will improve by us leaving the EU
Ethan
Money List Winner
Glad you agree that the little Englanders who proclaim the fine democracy of Westminster are wrong.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Ok, how about a truce, we ain't going to agree or change each others minds.
And roll on the referendum so we can move on.
Which brings us back to the central issue of who you want to be governed by. You're happy for it to be Brussels and I'm not.
Ethan
Money List Winner
But you are not governed by Brussels. You are governed by Westminster. Some EU laws and regulations are ratified by Westminster, but only a small fraction of primary legislation.
A research paper published by the House of Commons in 2010 said that in the previous 20 years or so 6.8% of primary legislation and 14.1% of secondary legislation had a role in implementing EU regulations, although that role varied from passing reference to explicit implementation. This rate has fallen from the mid 90s.
If you think that is being ruled from Brussels, you are deluding yourself.
I am quite happy for some of the EU legislation on working hours, environmental protections and human and consumer rights.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
if you say so. I'm very aware of all the toing and froing our Civil Service and ministers do with Brussels when they're forming legislation. And if you think it's any different, you're deluding yourself.
But you crack on, you're never wrong coz your intelligent
Ethan
Money List Winner
if you say so. I'm very aware of all the toing and froing our Civil Service and ministers do with Brussels when they're forming legislation. And if you think it's any different, you're deluding yourself.
But you crack on, you're never wrong coz your intelligent
Well, better than proving the opposite. Your (sic) welcome.
You might find your (correct use) answers and ideas get better if you use some actual information. Great intelligence not needed, GCSE level literacy would be quite sufficient.
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