EU Referendum - are you Out or In

[Hobbit]

More's the point is actually 'why do you think we will be able to?' The spurned wife in an acrimonious divorce, left with the young toddler children and truculent teenager to bring up, is not always that accommodating of the husband who breaks from the family to go seek new love, fame and fortune free of the straightjacket of the marriage.

Absolutely STAY/IN

The UK runs a massive trade deficit with the EU. If the EU imposes import restrictions or tariffs and the UK reciprocates, the UK generates money to subsidise trade - a UK win. The EU are unlikely to impose restrictions as any reciprocation will hurt them more.

I'd expect the Article 50 negotiations would involve a large 'penalty' for leaving, a divorce settlement using your analogy.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Can I get the rules confirmed please. Are you allowed to make exactly the same post in both identical threads or do you have to word them slightly differently?

 

[Ethan]

Foxholer - very astute of you. Boris wants to be the next leader and his claim will be stronger if he is on the winning side of this vote. I agree, he is currently weighing up which side is likely to win and that is where he will go. His key complaint was the loss of sovereignty and a desire to regain that. Dave has done nothing to resolve that so what is he thinking about? A conviction politician would not need days to think about this but this is more about strategy for Boris.

Boris wasn't weighing up whether he supported in or out, he was deciding if things were posed for his leadership challenge and he figured that there was a decent chance of Brexit and that he would be forgiven more for being on the losing exit side than he would be for a losing stay side. Complete political opportunism and triangulation.

 

[Old Skier]

Guys we have 2 euro referendum threads going at the mo,
Can we have this one as an indication of how you will vote, with comments, opinions, etc on the main thread

Ta Muchly

Might be best to just merge them if you have that facility

 

[ger147]

I am no more certain of what sort of EU relationship we are signing up for if we decide to stay than we are if we decide to leave. I have no idea what the various pros and cons are as none are being clearly articulated by either side, just the usual negative scare mongering by both sides if you don't vote with them, nothing positive.

So for the first time in my adult life, I am genuinely considering the possibility of not voting. Since turning 18 I've voted in every local election, every Westminster election, every Scottish Parliamentary election and I also voted in the Scottish referendum, but I'm not sure that between now and the date of this one I will be able to come to any sort of reasonable conclusion based on the nonsense IMO currently being spouted by both sides.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I am no more certain of what sort of EU relationship we are signing up for if we decide to stay than we are if we decide to leave. I have no idea what the various pros and cons are as none are being clearly articulated by either side, just the usual negative scare mongering by both sides if you don't vote with them, nothing positive.

So for the first time in my adult life, I am genuinely considering the possibility of not voting. Since turning 18 I've voted in every local election, every Westminster election, every Scottish Parliamentary election and I also voted in the Scottish referendum, but I'm not sure that between now and the date of this one I will be able to come to any sort of reasonable conclusion based on the nonsense IMO currently being spouted by both sides.

Go with your gut then.

 

[ger147]

Go with your gut then.

My gut feel is not to vote.

 

[Aztecs27]

Not read this whole thread, but genuinely shocked at the number of out votes.

 

[SocketRocket]

Not read this whole thread, but genuinely shocked at the number of out votes.

Why?

 

[SocketRocket]

Boris wasn't weighing up whether he supported in or out, he was deciding if things were posed for his leadership challenge and he figured that there was a decent chance of Brexit and that he would be forgiven more for being on the losing exit side than he would be for a losing stay side. Complete political opportunism and triangulation.

Political triangulation is appeasing both left and right. Is he doing that?

 

[bluewolf]

Well, I've thought long and hard.. I'm finding it very difficult to make an informed choice, mainly due to the utter bilge that is being spouted by the opportunistic gutter dwellers that currently inhabit the rarefied environs of Parliament.. However, I've decided to base my decision on 2 things..

The first is Workers Rights.. I genuinely believe that these will be better upheld in Europe than with our current Government..

The second deciding factor is based on my opinions of those in power who are currently advocating for an "OUT" vote.. When I look at the list of names I notice that I have a strong dislike for almost all of them..

Maybe not the most scientific decision making process, but I'd bet it has the same validity as those employed by most on here...

 

[evahakool]

'Isolate Ourselves" ! Thats a bit dramatic, we will still trade with the EU, go on holidays there, eat their apples, drive their cars and drink their wine. We will also be able to discuss and settle issues, why do you think we wont be able to?

I didn't say we wouldn't be able to discuss any issues that might crop up in the future just that it would be easier to diffuse any situations that might crop up if we stayed within the EU.

If we left the EU and imposed our own fishing limits ( not that our government would have the backbone to do this) how do you think the French, Spanish, and other EU countries that fish our waters would react? It could possible lead to trade restrictions from other countries.

 

[SocketRocket]

I didn't say we wouldn't be able to discuss any issues that might crop up in the future just that it would be easier to diffuse any situations that might crop up if we stayed within the EU.

If we left the EU and imposed our own fishing limits ( not that our government would have the backbone to do this) how do you think the French, Spanish, and other EU countries that fish our waters would react? It could possible lead to trade restrictions from other countries.

What exactly would be these situations that would be easier to diffuse?

How do you think countries around the World manage their Fishing limits. It's not Rocket Science and we still have a Navy thats still big enough to protect our territorial waters.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Well, I've thought long and hard.. I'm finding it very difficult to make an informed choice, mainly due to the utter bilge that is being spouted by the opportunistic gutter dwellers that currently inhabit the rarefied environs of Parliament.. However, I've decided to base my decision on 2 things..

The first is Workers Rights.. I genuinely believe that these will be better upheld in Europe than with our current Government..

The second deciding factor is based on my opinions of those in power who are currently advocating for an "OUT" vote.. When I look at the list of names I notice that I have a strong dislike for almost all of them..

Maybe not the most scientific decision making process, but I'd bet it has the same validity as those employed by most on here...

I'm in a similar place. The "freedom from bureaucratic European rules" I feel can be read as "a opportunity to further erode the rights of workers". I can see not a return to the mythical 1950's but the all too real 1930's. That said, although I'm certainly swaying towards staying in, I'm not as sure as I'd like to be. Will be an interesting few months....if not years!

 

[evahakool]

What exactly would be these situations that would be easier to diffuse?

How do you think countries around the World manage their Fishing limits. It's not Rocket Science and we still have a Navy thats still big enough to protect our territorial waters.

Who knows what will happen in the future,but by saying that we have a navy to protect our territorial waters implies that we would use them and that would seem aggressive to other countries and could lead to conflict.


It's a bit hypothetical anyway as the UK would never impose its own fishing limits.




You can't equat other single countries fishing limits to the EU, it's to simplistic to say it's not Rocket Science it's far from that.

 

[SocketRocket]

Who knows what will happen in the future,but by saying that we have a navy to protect our territorial waters implies that we would use them and that would seem aggressive to other countries and could lead to conflict.


It's a bit hypothetical anyway as the UK would never impose its own fishing limits.




You can't equat other single countries fishing limits to the EU, it's to simplistic to say it's not Rocket Science it's far from that.

Only when we are in the EU, we maintained our own limits before that just like countries do around the world. It is simple.

 

[SocketRocket]

I'm in a similar place. The "freedom from bureaucratic European rules" I feel can be read as "a opportunity to further erode the rights of workers". I can see not a return to the mythical 1950's but the all too real 1930's. That said, although I'm certainly swaying towards staying in, I'm not as sure as I'd like to be. Will be an interesting few months....if not years!

The biggest threat to UK workers is unrestricted migration.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And when the spurned wife realises that she is losing billions of pounds each year in lost trade?

One thing she doesn't do is go crawling to her departed ex asking for help.

 

[Fyldewhite]

The biggest threat to UK workers is unrestricted migration.

Exactly why do you think Germany has accepted over 800,000 migrants? It it because they are "good-eggs"? (think we know the answer to that). Is it because they are rubbish at running an economy and don't know what they are doing? Hmmmm, I think not, they have a reasonable track record I think all would agree. Maybe, just maybe, they know that with an aging population they need many many more people of working age. Maybe, just maybe, they can see that the long term gain is worth the short term pain? I don't actually know the answers, but it strikes me that there must be some good reason and as we are similar countries it surprises me that it is right for them and not for us. Time will tell I suppose but it will be 20/30/40 years (long after I'm gone) that we'll really know, and I think that long term view is what we should all be concentrating on. The migration from Eastern Europe is probably beneficial and isn't really a major concern to me. The migration crisis from the war-zones is more of an issue but is better tackled collectively and won't go away if we withdraw from EU. As has been made clear time and time again, we have closed borders now to non-EU migrants so what would it really change?

 

[jp5]

Exactly why do you think Germany has accepted over 800,000 migrants? Maybe, just maybe, they know that with an aging population they need many many more people of working age.

And what happens when those people retire? It's not sustainable to be forever importing young people to support an increasing number of retirees.