EU and EEA

[Foxholer]

...
In addition, EU and EEA wise, the rules were made up as they went along. For example, the EEA only came into being to let a few countries become a part of the Single Market, and until 2007 it was not possible for an EU member to leave the EU after they had joined. That's when Article 50 was created....

Not having a defined procedure didn't mean that it 'was not possible'!

Article 50 merely defined the procedure!

As it happens, I don't believe invocation of Article 127 actually is required - though it would probably clarify things (eliminate doubt) if it was invoked. Once A50 is invoked and the 2 years (at most) has passed, then UK will have left the EU. When looking at the membership criteria for the EEA, it states members of EU or of the EFTA are eligible - neither of which the UK would be a member! So it would have ceased/be ineligible to be a member of the EEA!

Invoking Article 127, timed to concide to leaving the EU, would simply be the confirmation of departure from EEA.

Much ado about nothing imo!

 

[Sweep]

What us who voted to Remain needed to know about leaving is, I suggest, neither here nor there compared with what those voting to leave needed to know.

I suppose we Remainers could have pointed out even more strongly the practical problems in leaving - though I think these issues would all have been lumped into Project Fear and ignored by Leave.

Let's just face the truth of it - the Leave campaign was disingenuous, deceitful, and parsimonious with the facts that it presented to the electorate.

And it is becoming ever clearer why the Referendum Bill did not include the words 'must implement the outcome of the vote' Because even although Cameron thought he'd win, knowing how difficult leaving would be he left a get out in the Bill - just in case...

So you didn't know. But you didn't need to know. But those who wanted to leave did need to know. But they didn't know either. Probably because no-one told them. Or maybe because those who should have told them i.e. those who wanted to stay didn't know. So maybe you did need to know so you could let the leave side know. Or maybe ignorance is bliss. Who knows?

 

[Sweep]

Not having a defined procedure didn't mean that it 'was not possible'!

Article 50 merely defined the procedure!

As it happens, I don't believe invocation of Article 127 actually is required - though it would probably clarify things (eliminate doubt) if it was invoked. Once A50 is invoked and the 2 years (at most) has passed, then UK will have left the EU. When looking at the membership criteria for the EEA, it states members of EU or of the EFTA are eligible - neither of which the UK would be a member! So it would have ceased/be ineligible to be a member of the EEA!

Invoking Article 127, timed to concide to leaving the EU, would simply be the confirmation of departure from EEA.

Much ado about nothing imo!

I agree. The truth is no-one has ever left before so no-one knows. That's why the government has no plan and that's why the EU has no plan. That's why this week alone we have had to listen to the leaders of Malta, Poland and Ireland on their plans for the UK and what kind of deal we can have.
Maybe we should look at it as a public service to the EU, so that when the next country (that is country, not state as the EU likes to call them) wants to leave - and they will - at least everyone will know what needs to be done.

 

[Hobbit]

I keep being told that the voters are not stupid and fully understood what they were being told - ergo - they would easily and clearly have understood that Osborne was talking about a forecast - and a little bit of reading to understand the figure would have made everything clear...just as a little bit of reading made the £350m figure clear.

From April 18th 2016

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-reality-check-uk-households-worse-off-brexit

Indeed the Leavers friend - aka the DM was very clear to it's readers over why they should ignore Osborne's figures.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-Britain-billions-spend-public-services.html

So no risk of misunderstanding by the voters then as they were provided with plenty of clarity on the figures from both sides of the debate. Unless, that is, they weren't listening...or did listen but didn't understand.

My point, which you continually seem to miss, is that the Remain campaign was equally as deceitful and disingenuous. But no matter how many times I highlight that to you, you just won't take it on-board. To you, Remain was near perfect but Leave was deceitful, disingenuous and parsimonious.

Leave lied, but so did Remain. Saying that one is the Devil's Spawn but not the other... sorry but that is just double standards of the first water. Until you grasp the fact that casually insulting Brexiter's intelligence whilst hiding behind your halo does nothing to further your argument or engage with those whose opinions you need to change, assuming there's another vote.

And likes of Osbourne being found out in a lie probably drove more people to vote Leave. He was one of the best adverts for Leave - how many times did you hear, "what has he got to hide." And, whilst you insult people as you do, you reinforce Osbourne's Remain behaviour and the vote to Leave.

 

[Sweep]

To be fair, the best asset to the leave camp was Eddie Izzard who I see has claimed £36k in expenses as part of the official Remain campaign, including £200 for chicken (he likes Nando's apparently). According to the Electoral Commission, it all relates to his "Stand Up For Europe" tour. I am not too sure who pays for the £2m each side spent and therefore paid for his tour, but I can make a good guess.
But then I may be wrong as I am lead to believe the Remain campaign was flawless.

 

[Foxholer]

My point, which you continually seem to miss, is that the Remain campaign was equally as deceitful and disingenuous. But no matter how many times I highlight that to you, you just won't take it on-board. To you, Remain was near perfect but Leave was deceitful, disingenuous and parsimonious.

Leave lied, but so did Remain. ...

Er...Can you actually give examples where they lied - as opposed used the worst/best case?

Leave certainly lied about the 350m/week! Though they certainly didn't commit to spending that on the NHS - even though some might have got that impression!

Misleading, provided it's based on truth, is acceptable in political battles imo - as it's up to the other side to refute! However, simply telling lies is unforgiveable!

Oh and kindly spell the ex-Chancellor's name correctly!

 

[delc]

Despite the title of this thread, it seems that the UK's only realistic options are a hard Brexit, or to stay as a member of the EU! The latter would suit me as a Remainer, but would upset the Quitters. The problem is that the other 27 EU countries are probably going to tell us to get lost, despite the claims of Boris Johnson and Paul Nuttall! We will somehow have to leave the EU and the EEA/Single Market!

 

[Old Skier]

despite the claims of Boris Johnson and Paul Nuttall! We will somehow have to leave the EU and the EEA/Single Market!

Funny how people only like to point fingers at Torys and UKIP leavers and ignore the number of labour people involved.

Typical of some remainers hypocrisy

 

[SocketRocket]

Despite the title of this thread, it seems that the UK's only realistic options are a hard Brexit, or to stay as a member of the EU! The latter would suit me as a Remainer, but would upset the Quitters. The problem is that the other 27 EU countries are probably going to tell us to get lost, despite the claims of Boris Johnson and Paul Nuttall! We will somehow have to leave the EU and the EEA/Single Market!

I find it very difficult how so may people get confused when they use the word Brexit so much, it means Britain Exiting the EU. Now some desperadoes like the hapless Tim Farron keep making sound bites like 'We voted for a departure not a destination' they seem to miss the point, we voted for a departure from the EU and the destination was the departure from the EU. There were enough politicians like the PM and Chancelor telling us that if we voted leave we would be voting to leave the single market.

Exit:
An act of leaving a place.

A departure from a particular situation.

Leave a particular situation.

Terminate a process or program.

A going out or away; departure:

Seems pretty clear to me what we voted for .

 

[jp5]

There were enough politicians like the PM and Chancelor telling us that if we voted leave we would be voting to leave the single market.

And there were enough politicians telling us that the NHS would be getting £350m a week extra.

Both sides have said untruths, and ultimately the only question voted on was whether to leave the EU.

Everything else - EEA membership included - is up for grabs.

 

[Sweep]

Despite the title of this thread, it seems that the UK's only realistic options are a hard Brexit, or to stay as a member of the EU! The latter would suit me as a Remainer, but would upset the Quitters. The problem is that the other 27 EU countries are probably going to tell us to get lost, despite the claims of Boris Johnson and Paul Nuttall! We will somehow have to leave the EU and the EEA/Single Market!

The UK's only option is to leave the European Union. That is what we voted for. There is no option to stay no matter how much you want there to be.

 

[Old Skier]

And there were enough politicians telling us that the NHS would be getting £350m a week extra.

Everything else - EEA membership included - is up for grabs.

And anyone who is half aware of the EU is that this will be a decision made within the EU and not by our courts.

 

[delc]

Funny how people only like to point fingers at Torys and UKIP leavers and ignore the number of labour people involved.

Typical of some remainers hypocrisy

Did the Labour Party say anything very much during the referendum campaign? If so I must have missed it!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I find it very difficult how so may people get confused when they use the word Brexit so much, it means Britain Exiting the EU. Now some desperadoes like the hapless Tim Farron keep making sound bites like 'We voted for a departure not a destination' they seem to miss the point, we voted for a departure from the EU and the destination was the departure from the EU. There were enough politicians like the PM and Chancelor telling us that if we voted leave we would be voting to leave the single market.

Exit:
An act of leaving a place.

A departure from a particular situation.

Leave a particular situation.

Terminate a process or program.

A going out or away; departure:

Seems pretty clear to me what we voted for .

When you exit somewhere it's usually handy to know where you are going other than just 'out'; it's handy to have a pretty good idea of what you will find and what you will do and be able to do when you get to the land of milk and honey.

And as you head for that promised land, it's usually good practice to have a good idea what the weather will be like during your journey so you can take measures to ensure you'll be in a fit state to do what you want when you get there.

But hey - let's just go.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The UK's only option is to leave the European Union. That is what we voted for. There is no option to stay no matter how much you want there to be.

And you know this for a fact..?

From an earlier post of yours The truth is no-one has ever left before so no-one knows

 

[Old Skier]

Did the Labour Party say anything very much during the referendum campaign? If so I must have missed it!

Either that or a selective memory.

Or possibly no memory.

 

[SocketRocket]

When you exit somewhere it's usually handy to know where you are going other than just 'out'; it's handy to have a pretty good idea of what you will find and what you will do and be able to do when you get to the land of milk and honey.

And as you head for that promised land, it's usually good practice to have a good idea what the weather will be like during your journey so you can take measures to ensure you'll be in a fit state to do what you want when you get there.

But hey - let's just go.

The destination is 'Outside the EU' I dont think anyone has suggested it will be a land of Milk and Honey or a promised land, that was a place in the Bible for the Israelites I believe. I dont want to go anywhere as I am quite content here in old Blighty and just want it to be an independent country just like most other countries in the world, nothing biblical about that. I want us to be free to make our own trade arrangements, I want us to be away from the protectionist EU who make the cost of so many things artificially high to support inefficient markets. Us leavers want a new and fresh future where we can forge our own pathway even if the going is hard at times, we have confidence in the UK and know it can weather bad times and create good ones and that journey would be all the better if some would stop complaining and put their backbones into making their country a success.

Here's a little Ditty that may give you a little inspiration:

[video=youtube;4IP9h40z0sk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IP9h40z0sk[/video]

 

[Sweep]

And you know this for a fact..?

From an earlier post of yours The truth is no-one has ever left before so no-one knows

A poor attempt at taking my comment out of context. I doubt anyone is impressed no matter how clever you may feel.
The fact is and yes it is a fact, we voted to leave the European Union. That fact is beyond doubt. That is the only option available to any government that respects democracy, even if you don't, as you have clearly demonstrated.
As you know, my comment on the point that no-one has left before related to the procedures and negotiations relating to leaving. Not whether we leave or not. I trust that is clear now and beyond doubt? Good.

 

[SocketRocket]

Did the Labour Party say anything very much during the referendum campaign? If so I must have missed it!

Forget the Party and consider the traditional voters who are and will be drawn away to parties like UKIP in their droves.