Etiquette

[richart]

It's not a bad point - and I accept what's said - but I go back to me feeling that I have a duty to other players to sort terribly raked bunkers or stupidly placed rakes as and when I come across them.

For me it's just like coming across rubbish dropped in the street - or indeed on the golf course. If I notice it and it irks me I will often pick it up and carry it to the next bin. Many would walk past thinking it's the street-cleaners (or the greenkeepers) job - I don't - I may well pick it up. And so to tidying bunkers and re-positioning rakes - when such considerations are, for me, even more important when the folk behind you might be visitors having paid a lot of money to play - and for whom this sort of thing creates a negative impression and is unnecessary - never mind the frustration of falling foul of the carelessness.

I think though that on this I seem to be finding myself standing at my lonesome HNSP

I think most of us on here will do certain things on the course. Repair pitchmarks, replace divots, put sand in divots on the tee, pick up rubbish etc, it is just where do you stop ? Bunkers to me are hazards, and I will moan like hell if I get a bad lie, up against a rake, in a foot print, etc, but it is just rub of the green to me. Can honestly say I have never seen a playing partner reposition a rake that is already in a bunker in 40 years plus of playing.

Slightly off track, I do think some golfers need to be told how to rake a bunker. Don't pull all the sand to the back as you walk out. Push sand back to the middle. I have seen a playing partner at Blackmoor do this to a badly raked bunker, but he is a greenkeeper by profession at another club.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think most of us on here will do certain things on the course. Repair pitchmarks, replace divots, put sand in divots on the tee, pick up rubbish etc, it is just where do you stop ? Bunkers to me are hazards, and I will moan like hell if I get a bad lie, up against a rake, in a foot print, etc, but it is just rub of the green to me. Can honestly say I have never seen a playing partner reposition a rake that is already in a bunker in 40 years plus of playing.

Slightly off track, I do think some golfers need to be told how to rake a bunker. Don't pull all the sand to the back as you walk out. Push sand back to the middle. I have seen a playing partner at Blackmoor do this to a badly raked bunker, but he is a greenkeeper by profession at another club.

I do find that quite surprising - mind you there are now plenty of members at my place who won't be able to say that. I am genuinely surprised that I seem to be in a tiny minority who do this - and who actually think it's the right thing for us to do for our fellow golfers - here was me thinking it was an obvious courtesy and duty of care to others.

 

[User20205]

I do find that quite surprising - mind you there are now plenty of members at my place who won't be able to say that. I am genuinely surprised that I seem to be in a tiny minority who do this - and who actually think it's the right thing for us to do for our fellow golfers - here was me thinking it was an obvious courtesy and duty of care to others.

It's a minority of 1. There are common sense places to leave a rake, but to actively look to reposition those that, in your opinion, are incorrect strikes me as a bit mental.

With this, the frowning upon DMD's & the HNSP, rounds with you must be a minefield

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Can honestly say I have never seen a playing partner reposition a rake that is already in a bunker in 40 years plus of playing.

Nor me and I'm sure if a PP was off repositioning the rakes in the bunkers (and we can have three in some bunkers), the first thing to happen will be everyone moaning about the pace of play. Never seen anyone do it and to be honest how many times per season does the ball really get interfered with by the rake when goes in the bunker

 

[user2010]

If a rake is in or near the bunker, that`ll do for me.:thup:

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It's a minority of 1. There are common sense places to leave a rake, but to actively look to reposition those that, in your opinion, are incorrect strikes me as a bit mental.

With this, the frowning upon DMD's & the HNSP, rounds with you must be a minefield

Good grief - I'm talking about moving any rakes like that in my photo away from the edge and I might as well stick it where the club suggests! I don;t walk round a course looking into bunkers and straightening up any rakes not perfectly positioned or aligned. I am doing this sort of thing for my fellow players. I remain astonished that I am the only person who does this - something that to me seems an easy and simply courtesy to others.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Seriously SILH ?! Didn't this happen in another thread when it was ruined by constant waffle about rake placement and now you have done it again.

 

[User20205]

Good grief - I'm talking about moving any rakes like that in my photo away from the edge and I might as well stick it where the club suggests! I don;t walk round a course looking into bunkers and straightening up any rakes not perfectly positioned or aligned. I am doing this sort of thing for my fellow players. I remain astonished that I am the only person who does this - something that to me seems an easy and simply courtesy to others.

Does the fact you're the 'only' person tell you something?

Etiquette is a good thing, but a fixation on rake placement and where to stand isn't etiquette, it's something else.

Generally I don't see a problem with etiquette, some pitch marks are missed, some divots are unrepaired but it's not systemic.
Just don't sweat the small stuff

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Good grief - I'm talking about moving any rakes like that in my photo away from the edge and I might as well stick it where the club suggests! I don;t walk round a course looking into bunkers and straightening up any rakes not perfectly positioned or aligned. I am doing this sort of thing for my fellow players. I remain astonished that I am the only person who does this - something that to me seems an easy and simply courtesy to others.

Definitely think you are in a small minority. I admire your diligence to other players but I've personally never had any issues with bunkers and where they are placed and there's more to worry about with my golf

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Definitely think you are in a small minority. I admire your diligence to other players but I've personally never had any issues with bunkers and where they are placed and there's more to worry about with my golf

Oh well - I still don't understand why there seems to almost be a reluctance to do it and to portray what I do as a bit odd. Nevertheless I'll continue to do as I do in my minority of one and if by doing so someone behind doesn't get trapped against the back of a bunker then it'll have been worth it - though I'll never know and neither will they.

 

[bobmac]

I don;t walk round a course looking into bunkers and straightening up any rakes not perfectly positioned or aligned.

Emmm..........

but when I approach a green I will glance at bunkers in passing and likewise when on green and not putting

but I will spend a minute or two (because that's all it takes) to sort out stupidly positioned rakes

I think maybe you do

And if that means the group behind has to wait one minute before playing to the green then that is fine by me

I think it may not be fine with the group waiting behind.

and if anyone pulled me up for it they'd get a piece of my mind.

Do you not think that might create a ''negative impression'' especially if the people behind waiting were visitors having paid a lot of money to play?

so I try and do my bit for other players

I think while some players may appreciate your efforts for the first few holes, I wouldn't be surprised if words aren't exchanged by the back 9.
If you are spending one or two minutes on every hole repairing pitchmarks and tidying rakes after you have completed the hole, that soon adds up and in my opinion constitutes undue delay.
By all means repair pitchmarks while you group are putting out but when the flag is in, get out of the way.
I'll end by saying if a group is given the choice of having to wait over half an hour while you tidy the rakes
or
finishing up in an awkward place IN A HAZARD, then I think they would chose the latter as has been mentioned by others, its just the rub of the green.

All just my opinion of course

 

[TheJezster]

Looking at that photo I also wouldn't think anything of it. It's a rake and it's in a bunker. If I use a rake I normally get rid of the footprints and just throw it back in or on the edge. I think that's what most people would do, certainly anyone I have ever seen

 

[MashieNiblick]

It's a minority of 1.

I remain astonished that I am the only person who does this - something that to me seems an easy and simply courtesy to others.

Does the fact you're the 'only' person tell you something?

Minority of 2? Certainly not the only one. See post 167. Unless I'm on "ignore".

I'm with SILH on this. I don't go looking for them but if I'm walking right past it I'll move it. I understand not everyone would do the same - fair enough, but I really can't understand why some people think it is OK to deliberately or negligently place a rake in a bunker where it could put another player at a disadvantage. A rake is an obstruction and is not an intrinsic part of the hazard and should not therefore be factor in affecting play from the hazard.

I also replace great lumps of divots that either haven't been replaced or have been turned over by crows as I walk by, and repair pitchmarks on the fringe if they are nearby after I have played. This all takes a few seconds. I do it while others are playing. I don't do it obsessively, just opportunistically. It doesn't slow down play one iota. Like SILH this just seems to me to be following the principles of good etiquette - care of the course and showing consideration for other players.

 

[User20205]

You'd never be on ignore but a minority of 2 doesn't suit my narrative

Nothing wrong at all with your approach, but actively looking for rakes to reposition, before 'educating' your fc's on where to stand on the next tee doesn't strike me as a fun way to spend my Saturday morning.

 

[MashieNiblick]

I think while some players may appreciate your efforts for the first few holes, I wouldn't be surprised if words aren't exchanged by the back 9.
If you are spending one or two minutes on every hole repairing pitchmarks and tidying rakes after you have completed the hole, that soon adds up and in my opinion constitutes undue delay.
By all means repair pitchmarks while you group are putting out but when the flag is in, get out of the way.
I'll end by saying if a group is given the choice of having to wait over half an hour while you tidy the rakes
or
finishing up in an awkward place IN A HAZARD, then I think they would chose the latter as has been mentioned by others, its just the rub of the green.

All just my opinion of course

Bob, with regard to the rakes, speaking for myself, this only happens very occasionally. Thankfully 99.9% of the time the rakes are OK. I'll only move one if it's along the inside back lip and I can move it without going out of my way.

On the slow play factor, I have been trapped between the back lip and a rake a couple of times and the palaver involved in moving the rake, letting the ball roll nearer the hole, replacing the ball, letting it roll again, then having to find the nearest place in the bunker, NNTH, where it will come to rest when I place it will be a much more frustrating experience for those behind.

The alternative is that miraculously I the ball stays in place when the rake is moved but I take two or more to get out of the bunker, ot have to traipse 30 yards to the opposite side of the green to play from where my thinned attempt has ended up. Either way it won't be quick.

One day my actions may save someone having to go through that or having to wait and watch it.

 

[MashieNiblick]

You'd never be on ignore

Cheers. so far as I am aware then it's still only Mrs Mashie-N who has activated this function

 

[dewsweeper]

I played today in a better ball and laid up to a bunker I could not carry.
I was tiring a bit but because of this thread I bent down and moved the rake from lying across the line of play to the " hogan" position, felt quite good with myself, then duffed my next shot, grrr!
Thanks Swingit.

 

[upsidedown]

I'm kinda with SWLH on this one in that at my home course if it didn't delay play and I'd seen a rake in a bad position to the detriment of following players , then I would rectify it . In much the same way I'll replace divots and generally keep the course tidy .

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Played today - repaired pitchmarks , filled in divots on tee and on the fairway

No idea where any of the rakes where

 

[Fish]

I played today in a better ball and laid up to a bunker I could not carry.
I was tiring a bit but because of this thread I bent down and moved the rake from lying across the line of play to the " hogan" position, felt quite good with myself, then duffed my next shot, grrr!
Thanks Swingit.

Can I just clarify that if the club does not clarify any rake position there is no such thing as "hogan" position.