DaveR
Head Pro
If I had a bad putting day and 3 putted every green that is 18 shots thrown away. I can't ever imagine giving away 18 shots off the tee, even dropping down to a mid iron off the tee isn't going to lose me anywhere near 18 shots.
Driver vs Putter
- Thread starter Barking_Mad
- Start date
DaveR
Head Pro
I doubt anyone would put themself into much trouble if they hit less club off the tee.
Wabinez
Journeyman Pro
Wrong
DaveR
Head Pro
OK if you say so
Wabinez
Journeyman Pro
The stats prove it ?
Shotscope and arccos publish the data, or at least make it available in places….and it shows that amateurs hit no more fairways with less club off the tee.
It’s an absolute fallacy that people think they do.
Also, whilst you MIGHT take a lost ball off the cards, you are also taking a birdie off the table. The distance drop off can be a lot. And then you are leaving yourself a much longer club into greens. Which can bring more mistakes.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
I'm in the driving camp..
At my course you need to get as close to the greens as you can.
They are, generally, firm and quite undulating.
You need to be able to hit a high shot with buckets of spin to get the ball to stop.
If I'm hitting a 6 iron in then I might get enough grab...but with a 9 iron I'm going to get more like the stopping I need.
So I need to keep the ball, if not on the fairway, at least in play, even if its 1st or 2nd cut - some fairways are virtually impossible to stay on.
I've always been a 30/32 putts a round player - never kept proper stats for long but when I have thats been the number.
Not the best stat to keep but its all I've got.
I suspect my number of putts has gone up due to the difficulty of our greens. Probably 35/37
But my scoring has stayed around a similar number....because I'm driving better and keeping the ball in play.
They say it takes 3 or 4 years to get used to the greens at Ellesborough - well I'm playing enough that I've got the hang of them after less than 2 so I'm expecting scores to come down next season as long as the driving stays where it is.
Driving is key for me.
If I drive well I score well.
At my course you need to get as close to the greens as you can.
They are, generally, firm and quite undulating.
You need to be able to hit a high shot with buckets of spin to get the ball to stop.
If I'm hitting a 6 iron in then I might get enough grab...but with a 9 iron I'm going to get more like the stopping I need.
So I need to keep the ball, if not on the fairway, at least in play, even if its 1st or 2nd cut - some fairways are virtually impossible to stay on.
I've always been a 30/32 putts a round player - never kept proper stats for long but when I have thats been the number.
Not the best stat to keep but its all I've got.
I suspect my number of putts has gone up due to the difficulty of our greens. Probably 35/37
But my scoring has stayed around a similar number....because I'm driving better and keeping the ball in play.
They say it takes 3 or 4 years to get used to the greens at Ellesborough - well I'm playing enough that I've got the hang of them after less than 2 so I'm expecting scores to come down next season as long as the driving stays where it is.
Driving is key for me.
If I drive well I score well.
DaveR
Head Pro
Hence the reason people have handicaps and should learn to use their shots accordingly. Can you show these stats? An 18capper doesn't need to make birdies, every par equals 3 points.
BiMGuy
LIV Bot, (But Not As Big As Mel) ?
So you can imagine 3 putting every green, but not losing a ball off every tee?
At least try and make a reasonably sensible argument ??
CountLippe
Active member
In 30 years playing golf I literally don't think I've seen a club golfer 3 putt 18 holes!!
Folk may perceive putting to be most important, but stats show this simply isn't true.
All parts of the game are important (I know a cat 1 golfer who gave up the game because he couldn't chip), however like foundations to a house, if you can't get the ball off the tee you will struggle.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
I remember the last time I won our 36-hole club championship like it was yesterday.
First hole I was left with the task of a chip and single putt for a double bogey.
Second hole I sank a putt from just off the green for a birdie.
Last nine holes I had 12 putts total for level par for those 9 holes.
I have no recollection whether I felt I was driving well or poorly that day.
I won by putting well - that's for sure.
First hole I was left with the task of a chip and single putt for a double bogey.
Second hole I sank a putt from just off the green for a birdie.
Last nine holes I had 12 putts total for level par for those 9 holes.
I have no recollection whether I felt I was driving well or poorly that day.
I won by putting well - that's for sure.
DaveR
Head Pro
I assume your course has par 3's and short par 4's? Is there trouble off every tee at your course?So you can imagine 3 putting every green, but not losing a ball off every tee?
At least try and make a reasonably sensible argument ??
DaveR
Head Pro
In 50 years playing golf I've never seen anyone lose a ball or put themselves in trouble off every tee.
Wabinez
Journeyman Pro
Sure
https://shotscope.com/blog/stats/driver-versus-3-wood/
I’ll give you the TLDR:
Conclusion: Driver versus 3 wood
The overall conclusion on the Driver or 3 wood debate is that you should hit Driver wherever it is reasonable to do so.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
"Tee to green, I don't think I can get much better, but I need to hole more putts." - Colin Montgomerie.
DaveR
Head Pro
Those figures only compare Driver v 3w. A handicap golfer using a hybrid, driving iron or even a 5 iron is going to hit more fairways. If they use a bit of course management they will be able to hit more nett greens in regulation.
And the figures you have quoted, only 1% difference in FIR between Driver and 3w, sorry but I find that hard to believe.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
My only issue with the Stats Brigade is that, although its a decent size sample, there are plenty of average ability golfers who, if they had to, would hit more fairways and score better with out a driver.
To come out with the generalised view that "every" golfer should do this or that is flawed.
Of course many will score better hitting a driver but not everyone....
From the Shotscope text..almost the single most used word is Average....on average, the average etc etc.
No decrying the data, for many, maybe most, the driver is the one to go for.
But averages are not actuals and I think that gets lost in the numbers...
Don't forget there are, I'm guessing, more golfers who don't use any form of stat tracking than there are who do.
Just my opinion of course..
I say - use whatever keeps the ball in play depending on your ability and the shot you have in front of you.
To come out with the generalised view that "every" golfer should do this or that is flawed.
Of course many will score better hitting a driver but not everyone....
From the Shotscope text..almost the single most used word is Average....on average, the average etc etc.
No decrying the data, for many, maybe most, the driver is the one to go for.
But averages are not actuals and I think that gets lost in the numbers...
Don't forget there are, I'm guessing, more golfers who don't use any form of stat tracking than there are who do.
Just my opinion of course..
I say - use whatever keeps the ball in play depending on your ability and the shot you have in front of you.
Wabinez
Journeyman Pro
Absolutely no issue with you having your opinion on that. Everyone is allowed one. You’d think with comprehensive stats proof of the opinion being incorrect would change a mind.
Just think, the difference between hitting a driver a 5i off the tee is going to be even more substantial - you really aren’t going to be saving any more shots.
However, it’s clear that evidence, when presented, is not required….so wish you good luck on your golfing journey and bow out of the thread.
Happy golfing.
Backache
Assistant Pro
I think people often mean different things even by words like important. Any one individual may feel that their putting or driving is more erratic and they are more likely to give up strokes compared with their own averages through either putting or driving , equally there may be more easy 'low hanging fruit ' for an individual to improve one factor more quickly than another in a route to a better score so for any individual it may be that one seems more important than the other.
Having said that Broadie in his very elegant statistical analysis of where shots were gained and lost including the types of shots demonstrated that taking groups as a whole, better golfers were more distinctly better in their driving than less good golfers than in their putting at all levels, whether the comparisons were made between professionals and amateurs, high handicappers and low handicappers or elite tour players compared with average tour players.
Having said that Broadie in his very elegant statistical analysis of where shots were gained and lost including the types of shots demonstrated that taking groups as a whole, better golfers were more distinctly better in their driving than less good golfers than in their putting at all levels, whether the comparisons were made between professionals and amateurs, high handicappers and low handicappers or elite tour players compared with average tour players.
DaveR
Head Pro
I don't get why people are hung up on distance.
400 yard hole. Driver off the tee into the trees at 200 yards followed by a chip out sideways means 200 yards to go after 2 shots.
Or 5 iron 150 yards down the fairway followed by another 150 yard 5 iron leaves 100 yards to go after 2 shots
OK, very simplistic but you get my drift.
JamesR
Tour Winner
The yips, when affecting good ball strikers, could easily lead to that.So you can imagine 3 putting every green, but not losing a ball off every tee?
At least try and make a reasonably sensible argument ??
